Trouble in Paradise
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I'm back again

I copied all the financial records, (that I've found) although I don't have anywhere to store them except for my bag I carry with me.  I'll be able to move it to my sisters this weekend though.

I had a long talk with him tonight.  Actually, he didn't feel like we were in a partnership from the get go - 5years ago.  He said he felt like he was raising a little kid, like he was a father to me instead of a husband.  There's something I don't think I said before, I hid my debt that I had from him before we got married.  He found out exactly 2-months into the marriage how much debt I had.  He knew I had debt, but not as much as he thought.  After talking to my dad he realized the problems I had with money in the past.  I think that's where everything started getting rocky.  He said that if he would've found this out before hand we would've never gotten married.  So, in his eyes, it really wasn't a partnership because he was always constantly worried about what else I was hiding from him, etc.  I can't totally blame him for that either.  I wasn't the most responsible wife.  He even admitted that he was an a$$ for even commenting about my weight.  He just see's that I've got alot of potential and I wasn't even trying.  And - I wasn't.  He admitted that we both stopped trying a long time ago.  I guess it's what happens when you get comfortable.  Somewhere along the way I lost pride in myself.  He's also not going to fight me on anything.  He's giving me 1/2 the savings, which I didn't even contribute to, - the good car if I just want to take over payments for it - or the other car which isn't so good but he'd put the money into repairing it.  He even said he'd give me the house, which I really don't want, but he said he'd sell it and I'd get 50% of that.  I'm know that's the law, but I have never paid anything on the mortgage.  He's nearly paid off the house.  As far as him controlling the money he said he only did that because he knew my spending problems and he needed to make sure it was there for what we needed it for.  At the beginning of our marriage - I wanted him to do that because I was actually scared of myself.  Before I marriage I went thru a time where I was buying random sh!t for I don't even know why.  I saw a counselor for awhile way back then and she pinpointed it as depression.  People sometimes buy things to fill the holes sort of thing.

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Re: I'm back again

  • His statement was that he thinks he'd actually be happier alone without anyone than having to worry about whether I paid one of the bills or not.  As far as me putting money in his account for the car - I'd missed some months and never said anything.  He said it would've been different if I would've said - hey I'm short this month I can't get it to you.  But I never said anything - I'd put money in his account late.  He just doesn't feel anything at all and just wants peace.  He wants me to get counseling and he's going to go to one too. 

    I think we've both disrespected each other way too many times.  I keep finding myself saying nasty things to him and then feeling bad about it.  I'm finding that I say these things because I'm so hurt and pissed that I want to hurt him back.  But I know that he's not some kind of coniving guy that's going to leave me high & dry.  I have the financial statements just to be on the safe side, because I was taking advice from you guys. 

    He said that his stomachs been twisted up and he's constantly been stressed out and been on edge so much in the past year, 2-years, maybe more.  He never got to enjoy the marriage - he never got to be in a supportive partnership with me because he felt like he was 'raising' a wife is the way he put it.  He was just constantly wondering when the nest crisis was going to occur.  I was just standing by and if I got into trouble - he'd take care of it.  He's felt used, unappreciated, and taken advantage of after all this.  He'd talk to me about it - but I've always had a way of tuning it out or making myself go numb.  Now I hear him - I'm changing - but it's too late.

  • I was told that a dissolution would be the best least expensive way to go.  No lawyer.  If I honestly left this relationship with what I came with I'd be leaving with a crappy car and a bank account that was near zero.  It's easy to talk crap about him when I'm mad, but when I lay it all out like this - I gotta be honest and see that he'd given me so many opportunities to change, but maybe I just didn't know how to be in a partnership myself.  I can only imagine how much of a pushover I sound right now.  I actually finally told my sister about what was going on because no one in my family knew and she said what I'd been kind of feeling, this would be so much easier if everyone didn't like him so much.  He's a polite, concentious, caring, guy.  Yes, there are times he admits he can be an a$$, but believe me - there are times when I can be a major b!tch.  He admits when he's wrong and has an open mind when it comes to just about everything.  Of course, the problem with these boards & posts is that you really only hear one side of the story.  If anything he's put a mirror up in front of me and it's making me sick of what I've turned into.  As far as some of the stuff I said yesterday - a lot of it was said when we were fighting and trying to push each others buttons.  People say sh!tty things when they are pissed off.

    Truth of the matter is - our marriage - it just didn't work.  I know there is life after this and I have to find out where I fit.  I believe I'll come out of this a much stronger person.  He even said that to me - he thinks that I'm strong and I'm better than what I give myself credit for.  He also said that I'm a better person than I was 5-years ago and he's right.  5-years ago I WAS a mess.

    By the way - I broke this up in three different posts because I'm hoping it would be easier to read.  I couldn't shorten it - I'm sorry.

  • Omg he is so f'ing condescending! I want to smack the crap out of him, and you just dont see it do you?

    I'm glad you are leaving and I hope you find happiness, but this guy isnt nearly as great as you think he is.

    WHY is he letting you take over car payments on the good car if he cant trust you with money? Something isnt adding up there.

    Please cover your butt with the divorce, this guy although you want us to think he is so wonderful....is part douche!



  • Did you actually speak with an atty? Who is going to write the Separation & Property Settlement Agreement?
  • I still think he is an asss.  If you have no assetts, I suppose you could get divorced without a lawyer.  I am glad to know you are leaving.  Yes, you shouldn't have hidde debt from him, but he is hardly blame-free in this.
  • It felt condescending at first, but I think the most important thing is we leave in one piece and do our best to get on with our lives.

    I was saying that it was my choice to take the newer car along with me making the car payments for it just continuing one with them or take the older one and he'd pay for everything that needed fixed on it and re-emburse me what I had paid into the new one.  The car would be in my name only then.  What's so wrong about that?  The older car that I would be taking is actually a newer car than what I brought into the marriage in the first place. 

    If we come to major disagreements on things - THEN I'd need a divorce, but why spend a sh!tload of money to fight over things that I know we can come to an agreement on.  We are FAR from rich.  I pretty much have to live check to check and he has at least been able to save.  The car is honestly the best thing we have.  That and what a flat screen TV?  Our computer is probably 10 years old, we have 2nd hand furniture, etc.  We also have two dogs - I'd take one he'd take the other, etc.

    If it would be him sitting here explaining his side - you'd probably be saying the same thing to him - that I'm the douche.

  • Not living up to your potential?  He really does think he's the dad and you're the child, doesn't he?  Eww, what a condescending ass.
    image
  • He talked to your dad about your savings.

    Forget it, just forget it --- this guy is much worse than a douche.

  • imageTaowensgirl:

    It felt condescending at first, but I think the most important thing is we leave in one piece and do our best to get on with our lives.

    ... 

    I pretty much have to live check to check and he has at least been able to save.  

    ... 

    We also have two dogs - I'd take one he'd take the other, etc.

    If it would be him sitting here explaining his side - you'd probably be saying the same thing to him - that I'm the douche.

    Hats off to your H.  He's got a wicked silver tongue. He's a total tool and yet he has you buying into this whole thing.  Don't walk away without seeing a lawyer.  The fact that you live paycheck to paycheck and your H has savings simply does not compute.  See a lawyer!

    And really?  Splitting up the dogs?  Not a cool move if they're attached to each other.

    I make more than my DH but our assets and liabilities are just that - OUR assets.  I didn't comment on your post yesterday but I'm still blown away by it.

    Please go see a lawyer!

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  • There is no redeeming him. The person you share a bed with is a downright piece of shyt human being.
    image
    Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
  • Not that it excuses some of the things he's done and said to you, but how much debt did you hide from him?
  • imageTaowensgirl:

    I pretty much have to live check to check and he has at least been able to save.  

    ... 


    This is a man??? This is character??

    Your stbxH sounds amazingly like the creep that I married. Very long story and too too familiar a tune.:(

  • imageTaowensgirl:

    I copied all the financial records, (that I've found) although I don't have anywhere to store them except for my bag I carry with me.  I'll be able to move it to my sisters this weekend though.

    I had a long talk with him tonight.  Actually, he didn't feel like we were in a partnership from the get go - 5years ago.  He said he felt like he was raising a little kid, like he was a father to me instead of a husband.  There's something I don't think I said before, I hid my debt that I had from him before we got married.  He found out exactly 2-months into the marriage how much debt I had.  He knew I had debt, but not as much as he thought.  After talking to my dad he realized the problems I had with money in the past.  I think that's where everything started getting rocky.  He said that if he would've found this out before hand we would've never gotten married.  So, in his eyes, it really wasn't a partnership because he was always constantly worried about what else I was hiding from him, etc.  I can't totally blame him for that either.  I wasn't the most responsible wife.  He even admitted that he was an a$$ for even commenting about my weight.  He just see's that I've got alot of potential and I wasn't even trying.  And - I wasn't.  He admitted that we both stopped trying a long time ago.  I guess it's what happens when you get comfortable.  Somewhere along the way I lost pride in myself.  He's also not going to fight me on anything.  He's giving me 1/2 the savings, which I didn't even contribute to, - the good car if I just want to take over payments for it - or the other car which isn't so good but he'd put the money into repairing it.  He even said he'd give me the house, which I really don't want, but he said he'd sell it and I'd get 50% of that.  I'm know that's the law, but I have never paid anything on the mortgage.  He's nearly paid off the house.  As far as him controlling the money he said he only did that because he knew my spending problems and he needed to make sure it was there for what we needed it for.  At the beginning of our marriage - I wanted him to do that because I was actually scared of myself.  Before I marriage I went thru a time where I was buying random sh!t for I don't even know why.  I saw a counselor for awhile way back then and she pinpointed it as depression.  People sometimes buy things to fill the holes sort of thing.

    I'm sorry you're going through this.  I've been following your saga from the other day.  In a way, I do side your husband because who would want an irresponsible wife that he needs to raise?  And I understand the not trusting you bit too, because you hid something that you know will raise a flag in your relationship.  It is just too bad that you guys did not work this out five years ago. 

    He's an azz for basically dumping you once he's got a better job, but honestly, it did sound like you never tried.  The weight issue, the depression, etc.  You're in your 30's, so you've got a lot more youth in you to make this right the second time around, hopefully.  The good thing is that he sounds fair in the splitting of the assets, so you got that to work with once you're on you're own.  Personal development is a never-ending quest, and I hope you try to do that now - socially, physically, financially, mentally and emotionally.

    The fact that you said you have no personal savings and he's got a ton saved up for the both of you shows the level of responsibilities that are weighed in on him ALONE.  Since you only pay $150month on car payment and utilities, what happened to the rest of your paycheck?  And the fact that you can't even make the $150 a month while working still is a mystery to me.  I'm not trying to be hard on you, because divorce/separation is not something I would wish on even my worst enemy.  I just hope you learn A LOT from this relationship.

  • You really, really, really need to go watch the Joy Luck Club. It was a serious suggestion then, and it's even more serious now. Please go watch that movie and then come back and tell me your H isn't an unmitigated ass.

    Also, I do think you would benefit from therapy, not because you're a grade A fuuk up or a child in need of fixing but because the low self esteem you entered the marriage with has been under constant assault and degradement by that piece of shiit you married for five long years.

    Biitchboy is a biitch.

    I am curious about how much debt you hid because I get the feeling we're talking a couple grand that could have easily been paid off had he actually had a discussion with you and not gone running to your daddy. Also, I think he used that debt as leverage over you. Dollars to donuts he had no intention of treating you like an equal partner. If it hadn't been "more" debt it would have been the debt you already had. If it hadn't been the debt, it would be that you came into the marriage broke.

    He thinks himself better than you and you agreed with him.

    You're both wrong. You're worth more than this. Now hold your head up high and take every last thing that douchebag is willing to give you, including the good, newer car. You deserve it for five years of putting up with his shiit. Plus, he's offering it to be the good guy, not because he's being nice. He's continuing the pattern of condescending paternalism he put in force from the beginning of your relationship.

    Please speak to a lawyer and be sure what he's offering you is fair. You contributed to that household, no matter what you, he, or anyone else thinks. I guarantee you your place in the marriage, your income, etc have all contributed to his ability to pay that mortgage, get the better cars, etc. Please don't tell yourself short. You don't have to use a lawyer but you can consult with one and make sure he's not "being nice" to keep you from getting what you deserve.

    And yes, you deserve it.



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  • Ticosparent- just stop talking.  Your dumb is showing.
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    Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
  • imageTicosparents:

    I'm sorry you're going through this.  I've been following your saga from the other day.  In a way, I do side your husband because who would want an irresponsible wife that he needs to raise?  And I understand the not trusting you bit too, because you hid something that you know will raise a flag in your relationship.  It is just too bad that you guys did not work this out five years ago. 

    He's an azz for basically dumping you once he's got a better job, but honestly, it did sound like you never tried.  The weight issue, the depression, etc.  You're in your 30's, so you've got a lot more youth in you to make this right the second time around, hopefully.  The good thing is that he sounds fair in the splitting of the assets, so you got that to work with once you're on you're own.  Personal development is a never-ending quest, and I hope you try to do that now - socially, physically, financially, mentally and emotionally.

    The fact that you said you have no personal savings and he's got a ton saved up for the both of you shows the level of responsibilities that are weighed in on him ALONE.  Since you only pay $150month on car payment and utilities, what happened to the rest of your paycheck?  And the fact that you can't even make the $150 a month while working still is a mystery to me.  I'm not trying to be hard on you, because divorce/separation is not something I would wish on even my worst enemy.  I just hope you learn A LOT from this relationship.

    Uhm, OP, please ignore every single thing this brilliant heifer said here. The fact that you have no saving and he has a ton shows just how unequal this marriage has been and that he's basically been using you to get ahead while leaving you nothing to show for it.

    Talk to a lawyer, please.



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  • imageTicosparents:
    imageTaowensgirl:

    I copied all the financial records, (that I've found) although I don't have anywhere to store them except for my bag I carry with me.  I'll be able to move it to my sisters this weekend though.

    I had a long talk with him tonight.  Actually, he didn't feel like we were in a partnership from the get go - 5years ago.  He said he felt like he was raising a little kid, like he was a father to me instead of a husband.  There's something I don't think I said before, I hid my debt that I had from him before we got married.  He found out exactly 2-months into the marriage how much debt I had.  He knew I had debt, but not as much as he thought.  After talking to my dad he realized the problems I had with money in the past.  I think that's where everything started getting rocky.  He said that if he would've found this out before hand we would've never gotten married.  So, in his eyes, it really wasn't a partnership because he was always constantly worried about what else I was hiding from him, etc.  I can't totally blame him for that either.  I wasn't the most responsible wife.  He even admitted that he was an a$$ for even commenting about my weight.  He just see's that I've got alot of potential and I wasn't even trying.  And - I wasn't.  He admitted that we both stopped trying a long time ago.  I guess it's what happens when you get comfortable.  Somewhere along the way I lost pride in myself.  He's also not going to fight me on anything.  He's giving me 1/2 the savings, which I didn't even contribute to, - the good car if I just want to take over payments for it - or the other car which isn't so good but he'd put the money into repairing it.  He even said he'd give me the house, which I really don't want, but he said he'd sell it and I'd get 50% of that.  I'm know that's the law, but I have never paid anything on the mortgage.  He's nearly paid off the house.  As far as him controlling the money he said he only did that because he knew my spending problems and he needed to make sure it was there for what we needed it for.  At the beginning of our marriage - I wanted him to do that because I was actually scared of myself.  Before I marriage I went thru a time where I was buying random sh!t for I don't even know why.  I saw a counselor for awhile way back then and she pinpointed it as depression.  People sometimes buy things to fill the holes sort of thing.

    I'm sorry you're going through this.  I've been following your saga from the other day.  In a way, I do side your husband because who would want an irresponsible wife that he needs to raise?  And I understand the not trusting you bit too, because you hid something that you know will raise a flag in your relationship.  It is just too bad that you guys did not work this out five years ago. 

    He's an azz for basically dumping you once he's got a better job, but honestly, it did sound like you never tried.  The weight issue, the depression, etc.  You're in your 30's, so you've got a lot more youth in you to make this right the second time around, hopefully.  The good thing is that he sounds fair in the splitting of the assets, so you got that to work with once you're on you're own.  Personal development is a never-ending quest, and I hope you try to do that now - socially, physically, financially, mentally and emotionally.

    The fact that you said you have no personal savings and he's got a ton saved up for the both of you shows the level of responsibilities that are weighed in on him ALONE.  Since you only pay $150month on car payment and utilities, what happened to the rest of your paycheck?  And the fact that you can't even make the $150 a month while working still is a mystery to me.  I'm not trying to be hard on you, because divorce/separation is not something I would wish on even my worst enemy.  I just hope you learn A LOT from this relationship.

    Whut?? Are you seriously telling her that you know her financial situation better than she does? Seriously?? Confused

     

    Taowens, get a lawyer.

    I agree with everything that muddled said. You should listen to her. -ESDReturns
  • Lol!  I did not say I know her financials better than she does.  And I agree that she needs a lawyer.  I'm just saying I hope she learns from this.  It's easy to take the side of the wife, but if it's the other way around, and the guy is the lazy one who hides a large amount of debt from his wife, and has never done any type of personal development, you ladies will be all over it. 

  • imageTicosparents:

    Lol!  I did not say I know her financials better than she does.  And I agree that she needs a lawyer.  I'm just saying I hope she learns from this.  It's easy to take the side of the wife, but if it's the other way around, and the guy is the lazy one who hides a large amount of debt from his wife, and has never done any type of personal development, you ladies will be all over it. 

    If the wife was then treating the H like a child, telling her she's fat, etc... you better BELIEVE I'd tell the wife she was a hosebeast of epic proporations and I hope her H ditches her azz.

    And did you ever think that the reason she hid the debt from him in the first place is because he's always treated her like she was a second-class citizen?

    image
    Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
  • imageimoan:
    imageTicosparents:

    Lol!  I did not say I know her financials better than she does.  And I agree that she needs a lawyer.  I'm just saying I hope she learns from this.  It's easy to take the side of the wife, but if it's the other way around, and the guy is the lazy one who hides a large amount of debt from his wife, and has never done any type of personal development, you ladies will be all over it. 

    If the wife was then treating the H like a child, telling her she's fat, etc... you better BELIEVE I'd tell the wife she was a hosebeast of epic proporations and I hope her H ditches her azz.

    And did you ever think that the reason she hid the debt from him in the first place is because he's always treated her like she was a second-class citizen?

    Are you serious?  So you really think this is the reason why she hid that much of a credit card debt?  Then why did she marry this guy in the first place if she already knew he's going to treat her like that?  She knew what she was getting herself into.  She's in her 30's when she married this guy.  She's not young, nor dumb.  It is easy to make excuses for this person, but if we keep doing it, she'll never get better, will she?

    All I'm saying is - what's done is done, move on, hopefully she gets the help that she needs to be independent and strong for the next relationship, or just for her own future.  To give someone that much power over you and fall 'victim' once that person's no longer around is sad.  No matter if you're the husband or the wife in this relationship.  This girl clearly has insecurity and confidence issues.  To keep telling her she did not do anything wrong, and that it's all his fault is just stupid.  She won't get any better, because the next time, she'll find someone else to blame for her misfortune. 

    She sounds fairly intelligent, so she can do better.  She just needs a kick in the pants and a confidence boost, not feeding her the "you did nothing wrong, it's all his fault!" mentality. 

  • imageTaowensgirl:

     I guess it's what happens when you get comfortable.  

    No. None of this is what happens when you get comfortable. Not even a little bit.

    ETA: And Ticoswife is stupid. So ignore her. On a related note, I tend to judge people whose SNs are ____'s wife/mom. Have an identity outside of your relationships to others, ffs. 

  • imagebloodyvalentine:
    imageTaowensgirl:

     I guess it's what happens when you get comfortable.  

    No. None of this is what happens when you get comfortable. Not even a little bit.

    ETA: And Ticoswife is stupid. So ignore her. On a related note, I tend to judge people whose SNs are ____'s wife/mom. Have an identity outside of your relationships to others, ffs. 

    Lol.  The fact that you base your judgment on SN's with that little tidbit, does not make you sound smart.  I should not be amazed that you stoop to the level of elementary-grade level name calling, ffs.

  • OMG. The truth is that we have no idea how much debt she is talking about here. It could be 3,000. It could be 30,000.
    I agree with everything that muddled said. You should listen to her. -ESDReturns
  • imageMuddled:
    OMG. The truth is that we have no idea how much debt she is talking about here. It could be 3,000. It could be 30,000.

    Wanna bet it's 3,000? And it's not that she "hid it" per se but that he never asked how much it was.



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  • Be prepared to retain an attorney if the dissolution isn't going peacefully or you see some conflict coming up.    A dissolution isn't as expensive as a divorce, but it also doesn't net the same results.    It's fine if you're both agreeable to the final settlement, but just be wary that the split may become contested.

    I suggest you plan on seeking financial counseling for yourself.   You've admitted you're terrible with money.   You'll be free from your husband, but then you'll also be on your own.   No sense in replacing the husband albatross with a debt collector albatross.    You need to start making smart financial decisions.

    And I don't wholly disagree with Tico.   Even a saint is going to have real issues with someone entering the marriage with hidden debt and poor financial habits.   We have seen multiple wives come on the boards with stories of husbands making large purchases behind their backs, or spending money they don't have on frivolous items, or quitting jobs with no backups, or not working hard to find a job, or not finishing school to increase earning potential, etc.  An irresponsible partner is ALWAYS a bad thing.   Maybe OP was hiding money because her DH is a douche......or maybe she would have hidden money from Prince Charming.   Any way you slice it, hiding money and poor financial responsibility is going to spell trouble in any future relationship.

  • imageMuddled:
    OMG. The truth is that we have no idea how much debt she is talking about here. It could be 3,000. It could be 30,000.

    Fair enough.  There's a lot we don't know.

  • Ticosparents, she should have been up front with him about her CC debt but that doesn't give him the right to treat her like a child.

    Do you really not get that?

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  • imagepedantic_wench:

    Ticosparents, she should have been up front with him about her CC debt but that doesn't give him the right to treat her like a child.

    Do you really not get that?

    I never once said I did not get it.  He has no right to treat her like one.  He's an ass for kicking her to the curb once he's got a new, better job.  He should not be picking on her weight.  There's a lot of things he should not have done, and there's a lot of things they could have done before things got to this point, 5 years later.  All I'm saying, is that I hope she learns from them, and I believe she can do it.  The good thing is that she acknowledges that it's not all his fault, and it's not all her fault either.  Five years is a long time to waste, but she's young enough to start for the better, and hopefully she will.  She can get a better job, take classes, and go on towards personal development.  Be strong and independent, and know which type of guys to avoid in the future.

  • Sure, the OP should have fessed up about the debt once the relationship was serious but that doesn't give her H the excuse to control his money, her money and treat her like crap in the bargain.

    How shoddily he treats her eclipses the debt.

    I don't know what else is involved here, and neither does the OP -- this is why she needs to lawyer up; anything could be going on with his money and his savings.
  • Your husband is a condescending douchewad. He makes me want to vom. Ick!

    I'm glad you are leaving him and FFS get youself some counseling. You need to wake up and smell the coffee so you don't get mixed up with another poor excuse for a human being again. 

    God, he is just such an arse-- its disgusting. Blech.

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