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Back from training, doesnt want kids.

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Re: Back from training, doesnt want kids.

  • imageRaiKai:
    imageccarnelli09:


    Yes we are young, and yes, he's had a change of heart, this has happened many times in our relationship. It is always hard at first, but our love always endures.


    In my experience, roller coasters are for theme parks, not relationships. A change of heart many times over is NOT indicative of a commitment to this relationship. What you call love, I see as codependency. 

     

    imageccarnelli09:

    Also, he had also recently gotten a DUI before he left and vowed to never drink again. He came back from training drinking 3-6 beers a day and smoking a pack a day (he had quit before he left). He also came back with 3 tattoos and almost no money. (<---- this is why I don;t want kids for a LONG time. He has A LOT of growing up to do, but isnt that most men at 22?).

    Um, so you are with a man who clearly has an alcohol problem, and puts other lives at risk by drinking and driving.  Has he actually sought counseling or AA for his drinking problem, or did he just "vow" never to drink again?

    He is irresponsible. This has nothing to do with him being 22. Plenty of 22 year old's show more responsibility than this. Stop the "most men" crap and realize this is YOUR husband, not "most men". If he has a "lot of growing up to do" he should not have married you, and you should NOT have married him. You do NOT marry someone hoping they will change. He may NEVER become more responsible.

    And the point is, he made a decision to commit to a marriage.  That means being responsible for his actions, being honest about his actions (i.e. about his spending, about his drinking, about not following through with his promise to stop by getting counseling).

     

    imageccarnelli09:

    After we talked recently, he said he just realized "what a big investment kids are" and how he's sure he'd be a terrible father. I told him that I've made kids my life (career wise) and that if I thought he was going to be a terrible father, I wouldn't have married him. I agreed and said right now, yes, he wouldn't be very good at it. He might even be bad at it. But in 5 or 6 years, it'd be different. What was bothering me most was that he was saying NEVER. Now he's agreed to wait and see. Even if we have to wait until we are thirty, it's worth it.

    What will be "different"? How can you say it will be different? 

    He is telling you clearly he thinks he is going to be a bad father - he is SURE of it. He does not WANT to make that investment. 

    Why are you trying to convince him otherwise?

    How do YOU know he will be a great father? You said before he said he really wanted to be a dad, though he does not like other people's kids.

    I know my own husband would be a great father as I see how he interacts with other children - including children he works with and our nieces and nephews. He connects with them, and they connect with them. I call him the baby whisperer. But, more than that, he is able to appreciate them, listen to them, interact with them, and so forth.  We may not have children, but I do know he will be a great father if we do as I have SEEN it. 

    So now he is saying he will wait and see. Tell, me, when you get to 30, and he still says he is not ready or going to want them...what then?

    imageccarnelli09:

    Now did I open up a can of worms by mentioning all of the other changes? Love is about loving someone even through their faults. God bless him, he loves me through mine. At the end of the day, he chooses to be with me, I have given him plenty of opportunities to leave.

    If that is what works for you, so be it.  It is your life to live, and if this is what you deem that you deserve, there you have it.

    I did not know being dishonest, being very distant, hiding his phone, and not telling you things/not communicating with you could be considered "faults". I consider those major character flaws. It is not like you just differ on which way to roll the toilet paper.

    If you think this is him loving you, your self esteem must be in the tank. 

    Commitment is about far more than him "not leaving" or him living in the same house.  I think he is trying to appease you, and this is ALL going to come out again, hard core, in the future (be it near or far). Just because he is not prepared to leave, does not mean he is committed.

    Is he willing to go to counseling with you? Is he willing to go to AA?


     

    imageccarnelli09:


    I checked the phone number, it does match up to who he said  it was.

    How did you check it?

    image

     

    I too am curious on one part RaiKai pointed out... What happens if/when you're 30+ years old and he re-states that he never wants to have kids? And don't say you'll bridge that gap when you get to it... you need to think about these things now.

    I forsee you having to make a big decision in about 10 years... do you stay in your marriage and be bitter, unhappy and resentful that you'll never be a mother; do you divorce him and start all over again; or do you poke holes in the condoms and "forget" to take your pill so you can force him into being a father (which he already told you that he'll be an unfit father)?

  • Ok, you've just confirmed that you and your husband are both idiot kids playing around with marriage.

    First of all, if you've broken up multiple times over the course of the relationship, that means you're not a good couple and your relationship is crap. I can't imagine why you took it as a sign that you should get married. Regarding your acknowledgment that your husband has exercised extremely poor judgment (on SO MANY levels) and that he has some growing up to do, as do most 22-year-olds: YES! THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO GET MARRIED AT 22! You have all the correct premises, but somehow you arrive at the most monumentally wrong conclusion one could possibly imagine.

    So your husband is an unemployed alcoholic (who puts himself and others in danger with his drinking and could potentially jeopardize what little money he's bringing in from the National Guard) who spends money frivolously and doesn't share your vision for the future. And you're just going to stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good luck with that.

  • Wow.  first, I'm going to be really clear on this - Love DOES NOT conquer all.  That's the feeling I get from your update, that you think that "love" is enough.

    It's not.

    As RaiKai said, I too knew my Dh would be an amazing dad because I SAW HIM interact w/ other kids.  He's a hell of a lot better w/ other kids than I am, to be honest. 

    And please, please, please stop insulting my DH and many other DH's by lumping all this into "this is how men are at this age".  No, this is NOT how 'all men are'.  This is how YOUR DH is. 

    You have blinders on bigger than I've ever seen.  Good luck w/ forcing this square peg into a round hole.  I'm sure it will work for you.  Tongue Tied

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    ~Benjamin Franklin

    Lilypie Third Birthday tickers
    DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10

  • I think still that you and your husband need to try counseling. His behavior change seems very significant to me. I got married young, too, even younger than you actually (at 21) and while we have had our problems,  my husband has not acted this way, so I'm not sure it's just an age thing. I hope that whatever decisions you make, you are able to find happiness and fulfillment. Do not settle for less than what you want and deserve for yourself.

     

  • You know your husband has a drinking problem yet you think it's a great idea to have children with him?  I hope you are using protection bc alcoholics do not make great fathers.  Do you honestly want to deal with him being so drunk one night he could possibly drop your child and cause him/her harm? 

    I can see now why he doesn't want children.  It's entirely possible him telling you that is a cry for help to combat a very serious and deadly addiction.  You definitely need to have a talk with him about going to AA, a detox program, etc.  Also, there is a program out there called Al-Anon for families and friends of alcoholics.  You should definitely go.  You do the 12 steps and get a sponsor, kinda like actual AA.  You and him may not think he's a full blown alcoholic, but there is such a thing as a functional alcoholic.  He's tried to stop and has failed.  That signals and addiction.  It's time for step 1:  Admit I am powerless over alcohol.

  • I did not come to this board to be personally attacked.

    I am an extremely successful person and do not appreciate you judging my character.

    Please be sure to understand a situation before attacking it. My husband was NOT an alcholic before I married him. And I certainly did not tolerate his DUI. It almost cost us our apartment, as well as other things. The state mandates AA counseling which he cannot complete until he gets his licesence back. And no, that is why I DONT want children right now, he is clearly unresponsible. I didn't marry him hoping he'd change. He wasn't this way when I married him.

    To further clarify, we broke up only once, for 2 months when we first started college (at separate schools). We wanted to test the waters without each other and explore college life.

    I know my husband's heart. I know that his recent actions are his (unfortunate) way of coping with a lot of terrible things that have happened in his life, and are not a true reflection of his character. Only two people who have grown up together can understand that.

    I do not think God meant for us to abandon our partners when they make mistakes. I know my husband needs help. I came to this board to gage how much of what is going on stemmed from his military involvement. All of these changes happened while he was gone. And all of his fellow soldiers were married and some had children. While he was away, one of his commanders (married with four children) was killed over seas.

    Also, I don't think that who a person is at 22 is directly correlated with their ability to parent. No study I've ever seen supports that. My father was a hippie, in all sense of the word, in the 60's, and he is a terrific, responsible father.

    I apprecaite your insight, but understand I am taking it with a grain of salt.
  • Let me guess, you feel sorry for our husbands too, don't you?

    [IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/2ivjh92.jpg[/IMG]
  • The part about his liscene and counseling  sounds uber fishy to me.  Why would the state give a liscence back to someone with a DUI and THEN force them to counseling?  Does.not.compute.  However, you don't necessarily have to go through the state for this.  There are many, many churches and private organizations that host AA meetings, at no cost.  All you have to do is show up.  At the AA meeting, they can also offer referrals to places that do more in-depth treatment, such as detox, etc. if they think a person needs it or he wants it.

    Additionally, the military does have a substance abuse program for soldiers.  How he goes about doing that IDK.  Someone here on the board can offer more advice on that aspect.

    Also, I again repeat my suggestion on seeking out Al-Anon.  Your self-esteem sounds like it's majorly tanking.  That's not a personal attack on you.  I used to be you, bc I let my father walk all over me, and later on in life my EX BF.  It's a vicious cycle that only you can break.  Also, low self-esteem is a classic effect of someone in a close, personal relationship with an alcoholic.  You are tolerating his DUI by allowing him to continue to drink and sleep with him like everything is ok.  That's also something that ppl who love an alcoholic tend to do.  Both of you really need help.  I sincerely hope that you get it..and soon.  Honestly, it'll only get worse if you both continue on this road.

  • imageccarnelli09:


    I do not think God meant for us to abandon our partners when they make mistakes. I know my husband needs help. I came to this board to gage how much of what is going on stemmed from his military involvement. All of these changes happened while he was gone. And all of his fellow soldiers were married and some had children. While he was away, one of his commanders (married with four children) was killed over seas.

    I am sure much of what is going on stemmed from him being away for training and having the chance to be on his own in a different atmosphere, but if you think that it is a result of "military involvement" (by this I assume you are meaning things like PTSD) from being in training for ten weeks you are quite frankly, trying to fix blame onto something other than your husband for things that are in his control and that do not exist. People do not get PTSD at a ten-week training camp.

    I can see being upset about his commander, sad, angry, scared, and so on, depending on how long he has known him and so forth. Even so, if your husband needs help for those issues via counseling or other military services available, HE needs to get it and he needs to communicate what is going on. You can be supportive, but that does not mean putting up with crap in how he treats you.

    Just because "all" his fellow soldiers are married (really, "all", somehow I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt "all" his fellow national guard soldiers are married) does not mean they are committed to their marriages either.  I am sure MANY are married. Young military men have a tendency to get married, well, young......but most of them are not that prepared for it (acknowledging this is a MN board, I want to add I know that NOT all of them are totally unprepared or not serious about their commitment!). 

    Your husband has not even gone on a damn tour, what is going to happen if he has to deal with that?

    I don't agree with "abandoning" your spouse in a time of actual need. For example, my husband went through a period of time following his retirement from the military where he suffered PTSD for example from a culmination of three tours (and he has certainly seen a lot of atrocious things, and lost many very, very close friends he has known for many many years - one quite recently).  He ended up hospitalized briefly. He was in another province at the time, I flew out, and spent Thanksgiving with him in the psych ward eating a turkey dinner the other residents put together for me from their own plates. Best thanksgiving I ever had, even it was a tough time. I was fully present for him, there for him, and supported and listened to him. As he was for me.

    However, key difference...he was proactive about taking responsibility for his actions, and going to counseling, or whatever else he needed to do. He kept talking to me about what was going on. He worked through it, I supported him, and we are still a very strong couple. He never turned against ME - his partner - while he was going through that.

    Not ONCE has he ever been dishonest, stopped communicating with me, been financially irresponsible, lied to me or behaved immaturely otherwise. Those are not "mistakes".  Your husband vowing to STOP drinking, and then keeping to drink is not a "mistake". Your husband being financially irresponsible is not a "mistake".

    I will be blunt. The first time away at training in the military is a make it or break it time for MANY couples. Same with the first deployment for different reasons. Same with the third deployment, again for different reasons. But that first time away training.....a lot goes on you probably have NO clue about at this point and he is not being honest about it. I can almost guarantee you something happened at training that has had him re-evaluate whether he really wants to be what he perceives to be "tied down" in a marriage at this time of his life. He may not have cheated, but he probably was introduced to a lifestyle that is not one he finds fits with being married at his age to the girl he has been with since he was 15. And that is why there has been this sudden rapid change that was NOT there before he left.

    Have you point blank asked him if he wants to be married at this time in his life?

  • I'd take what RaiKai is saying with more than a grain of salt. You're ignoring her because she's giving you blunt, honest advice. It might not be exactly what you want to hear, but she's throwing the truth right at you.

    Right now I'm picturing a 5 year old girl in a party dress, fingers in her ears going.... LA LA LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!

    Take this paragraph from RaiKai with a 10 ton slab of concrete...
    I will be blunt. The first time away at training in the military is a make it or break it time for MANY couples. Same with the first deployment for different reasons. Same with the third deployment, again for different reasons. But that first time away training.....a lot goes on you probably have NO clue about at this point and he is not being honest about it. I can almost guarantee you something happened at training that has had him re-evaluate whether he really wants to be what he perceives to be "tied down" in a marriage at this time of his life. He may not have cheated, but he probably was introduced to a lifestyle that is not one he finds fits with being married at his age to the girl he has been with since he was 15. And that is why there has been this sudden rapid change that was NOT there before he left.

    Have you point blank asked him if he wants to be married at this time in his life?

  • Do you really want to be married to a man you have to babysit?

    If so, he needs to get out of the military. I mean seriously. He goes away and becomes a drunk hot mess who spends money without consulting you. What the fuuk do you think will happen when this teenaged dirt bag deploys?

    Very little of this has to do with the military and everything to do with your H being a child who cannot behave himself unless properly supervised. Do you wish to be his wife or his mommy and since he's in the military, how do you feel about cleaning up his messes and worrying about what the fuuk he's doing every time he's away?



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    image
  • imageccarnelli09:
    I did not come to this board to be personally attacked.

    I am an extremely successful person and do not appreciate you judging my character.

    Please be sure to understand a situation before attacking it. My husband was NOT an alcholic before I married him. And I certainly did not tolerate his DUI. It almost cost us our apartment, as well as other things. The state mandates AA counseling which he cannot complete until he gets his licesence back. And no, that is why I DONT want children right now, he is clearly unresponsible. I didn't marry him hoping he'd change. He wasn't this way when I married him.

    unresponsible?? really?

    To further clarify, we broke up only once, for 2 months when we first started college (at separate schools). We wanted to test the waters without each other and explore college life.

    So, you tested the water for 2 months and then claimed you both had other relationships? 2 months does not make a relationship in grown up time.


    I know my husband's heart. I know that his recent actions are his (unfortunate) way of coping with a lot of terrible things that have happened in his life, and are not a true reflection of his character. Only two people who have grown up together can understand that.

    But you siad he wasnt like this before you married him? Oh, i get all these terrrible things in his life didnt start bothering him until very recently.

    I do not think God meant for us to abandon our partners when they make mistakes. I know my husband needs help. I came to this board to gage how much of what is going on stemmed from his military involvement. All of these changes happened while he was gone. And all of his fellow soldiers were married and some had children. While he was away, one of his commanders (married with four children) was killed over seas.

    I'd say little to none...you just blamed it on his terrible life.

    Also, I don't think that who a person is at 22 is directly correlated with their ability to parent. No study I've ever seen supports that. My father was a hippie, in all sense
    of the word, in the 60's, and he is a terrific, responsible father.


    I apprecaite your insight, but understand I am taking it with a grain of salt.

     Of course you are because you at 22 know so much more about relationships, having children, being in a realtionship as an adult, seeing reality, and making wise choices.

    So, go ahead wait until you are 30 and then when he tells you again he doesnt want kids maybe youll believe him. Just take that with a grain of salt.



  • Yes I have asked him if he wants to be married. He does. No I am not claiming he has PTSD. I am saying he is extremely sensitive (you're talking about a guy who cried while watching polar express) and I think that the military is a perfectly horrible place for him. I think he developed a poor coping habit while he was away, that's all.

    He is a 2lt officer. He was in a small training group and all of them were married. He was the youngest one there.

    I never claimed to know more than anyone about anything, except who my husband is. None of you know him. I do.

    I came here for support, not to be ridiculed. I expected more comradery from military wives.

    I just spoke with him and it turns out he's thinking about resigning his commission and enlisting instead, and switching his branch from ag. He's having a hard time deciding what to do and that's why he's been so distant.

    I do have to say thank you to those of you who offered kind words and support. It has helped tremendously.

  • imageccarnelli09:
    He is a 2lt officer.

    FML.

    imageccarnelli09:
    I just spoke with him and it turns out he's thinking about resigning his commission and enlisting instead, and switching his branch from ag.

    DOUBLE FML.

    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • Ditto Ojo.

    Could he also be pulling away bc he's suffering from an addiction for which he has not sought help?

  • imageccarnelli09:
    I came here for support, not to be ridiculed. I expected more comradery from military wives.

    The problem with this is that you're insinuating the military is causing your husband's problems.  It's not.  He is.  The majority of military members really are upstanding citizens.

    I agree with you that the military is a horrible institution for your husband.  He should not be enlisted and he should not be in any other branch.  He should not be in the military at all. 

    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • imageMrsOjoButtons:

    imageccarnelli09:
    I came here for support, not to be ridiculed. I expected more comradery from military wives.

    The problem with this is that you're insinuating the military is causing your husband's problems.  It's not.  He is.  The majority of military members really are upstanding citizens.

    I agree with you that the military is a horrible institution for your husband.  He should not be enlisted and he should not be in any other branch.  He should not be in the military at all. 

    Ditto this.

    If the military is a "horrible place" for him, the last thing that is going to fix that is him switching to enlisted or moving around. Training is hard, but ten weeks of training is nothing compared to deployment, or some of the more intensive and longer training courses. 

    Sorry that you feeling being honest is ridicule, but I am not going to play puppies and rainbows. 

    You YOURSELF said this has been a sudden change that happened during training (well, until recently, then you backtracked and now say he has had lots of stuff happen in his life).  Hereto, something happened at training. That is not the FAULT of training. That is a result of his own reactions to that training, or own choices.

    You YOURSELF said you are border-line depressed as a result of all that is going on. You YOURSELF said he won't talk about it "at all". You YOURSELF said he was hiding things. You YOURSELF said he vowed not to drink, and continued. How is me pointing out the obvious (i.e. that he is dishonest, not communicating, etc) ridicule?

    I really think he is telling you what you want to hear (now he will "think about" kids again) and I am not even sure you are prepared to hear the truth anyway.  Honestly, I don't even think it sounds like he knows what he wants.

    I am not going to tell you your husband sounds like all he needs is your love and patience, because that is NOT how people change. People change by accepting self-responsibility for their own health, maturity, feelings and actions...which he is not doing. He sounds like he probably has an addictive personality, and an addiction or two, and HE needs to do something about that. Your "love" will not get him through it.

    There are going to be lots of stressful times in his and your life. Is this how he is going to react? By hiding his phone, not talking to you, telling you he no longer wants kids, drinking and breaking promises not to drink, going out and getting tattoos....etc?  Is that what a marriage is to you?

    But you are right, you know him better than we. But just because we don't know him personally does not mean that red flags can't be going off left and right.

    I asked you earlier if he would be willing to go to counseling - either alone, or with you, or something...and you have not answered. 

    Have you considered going to counseling yourself?

    Believe it or not, I do care. 

    But, hey, if you are happy in this marriage as it is and are convinced it will all turn out, feel free to ignore my "ridicule". But I don't think you are all that happy if you had to make two posts about it. And I don't blame you, I don't know many people who would be happy within the dynamics and marriage you have described. 



     

  • imageMrsOjoButtons:

    imageccarnelli09:
    I came here for support, not to be ridiculed. I expected more comradery from military wives.

    The problem with this is that you're insinuating the military is causing your husband's problems.  It's not.  He is.  The majority of military members really are upstanding citizens.

    I agree with you that the military is a horrible institution for your husband.  He should not be enlisted and he should not be in any other branch.  He should not be in the military at all. 

    THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!  If he can not hack it as an officer, he sure the heck won't be able to hack it as an enlisted person.  Please encourage him to seek out other employment.  He is not made for the military. 

    [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/160yf86.jpg[/IMG]

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  • To be fair, when you said this: We both have dated other people, but have always come back to each other. ...you made it sound like breaking up was something you did frequently. Now, going back to your other issues- I don't think the military caused them, but it might have been a catalyst for bringing them to the surface, if that makes sense. In any case, the kids/no kids thing alone is a very serious issue that has spelled the end of many marriages. I know you were looking for support here, and it's reasonable to expect that to a certain extent, but you have to remember that this is a message board, not therapy, and we are all just average people with no expertise in the subject of marriage but our own experiences, and you have to be prepared for opinions, both positive and negative. If you really want to get to the bottom of this and resolve it one way or another, you really do need to go to couples counseling. There is just no excuse not to.
  • Of course I am open to all opinions, thats why I came here, to get an onlookers opinion. By ridicule I was refering to people who were resorting to name calling. Whether or not you would have married him, or whether or not you think I am an idiot for doing so is regardless. It's already done. Insulting me over it will not change it and does little to help the situation. Instead of cursing the darkness, one needs to light a flame.

    I have changed things I have said because as this forum has been going on, my husband and I have been doing a lot of talking. We don't even talk about the kids subject  anymore because we have resolved it. I am not upset about it anymore because we have resolved it.

    I didnt mean to say that all military wives should understand what I am going through. I was simply wondering if any other military wives had experienced anything like this before... a significant change in their husband after a period of leave.

    Yes I have suggested counseling, yes he agrees to go.

    Regarding AA classes, I went to court with him, so I personally witnessed the requirement of the courses. The idea is that if someone doesn't have a license, they don't have a way to get to the courses, therefore, the person has to have their license reisssued before they can attend the classes. They have only a week after getting their license back to register for the course.

    I agree I don't think the military caused his issues. I agree that it simply provdided an environment for those issues to surface. Regardless, here they are. Again, I am new to the military world and was just trying to put some feelers out for normal/abnormal behaviors so I could do the best I could to help my husband.

    I agree the military is no place for him, and enlisting would be unadvisable.
  • Wow. I totally agree 100% with every single think RaiKai has said.

    Also, I now know who to refer to if I ever need to get a well written 10+ page paper done Angel

    [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/357eght.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/2a85o36.jpg[/IMG]





    <a href="http://www.alifetobraggabout.blogspot.com" target="_blank"><b>BLOGGY STYLE</b></a>
  • imagemrsredrox:

    Wow. I totally agree 100% with every single think RaiKai has said.

    Also, I now know who to refer to if I ever need to get a well written 10+ page paper done Angel

    hahahah her siggy is dead on. 

    [IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/2exyblx.jpg[/IMG]<p><p>
    Winning ain't easy
  • I applaud RaiKa and the wall of text. 

  • imagemrsredrox:

    Wow. I totally agree 100% with every single think RaiKai has said.

    Also, I now know who to refer to if I ever need to get a well written 10+ page paper done Angel

    If you want 10, you'll have to ask me for 5. Wink


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