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Completely Lost

I apologize for this being long and possibly confusing I will try to make it as short as possible.  My brother has been with his now wife for 6 years, no one in the family likes her because of her lack of motivation (she refuses to work or move out of state and away from her parents to live with my brother) doubled with her high expectations which result in treating my brother like a work horse (something that is shared by all the women in her family).  Now I understand that this is not any of our business (even though they both complain about my brothers insane work hours to the family) so we put on a happy face and play nice, we have managed to be friends over the years.  My SIL is very spoiled by both her family and my brother which I feel has created a monster.  She demands every holiday and has yet to spend one with my parents or I.  My brother tries to avoid having to decide by working, at the beginning we would go stay with him during the holidays (he lives 4 hours away) but eventually I had to stop because I got married and had my own obligations. Over the years when my brother and my now SIL did spend time with us she would sit at the dinner table and not speak to anyone but my brother by whispering in his ear.  Nothing was ever mentioned and the behavior worsen.  My parents me and my husband noticed that things get even worse (if it was possible) when they got engaged and the closer they came to their wedding.  My patience started to wear at SIL's shower when she was opening gifts and making comments about what people gave her.  My mom and dad had given SIL all of her luggage and a large amount of money to plan a VERY nice honeymoon as a shower gift.  After the shower for 2 weeks she was hounding my mom about what she actually paid for the luggage (that was on the registry) and if it was the correct luggage which made my mom feel as if her gift wasnt good enough.  We let it slide and chalked it up to wedding stress.  Closer to the wedding SIL was hounding me about my friend who was doing the hair and makeup (her choice not mine) and called my friend unprofessional to me because she was going to also do my moms makeup along with SIL and her own mother.  Again we let it slide, although she is still complaining about it months later.  Throughout the process my mom told SIL if there was anything she needed let her know and she would be happy to help.  6 days before the wedding when my mom was out of town SIL was demanding certain sized photos from my mom by that Tuesday.  My mom got in late Tuesday and wasnt able to give them to SIL until the rehearsal, in all the correct sizes along with frames that she could use if she needed/wanted to, which was 2 days before the wedding. SIL yelled at my mom and would not accept them.  My mom also got yelled at by SIL because her entire family could not fit at one table, my mom was gracious enough to host her aunts and cousins.  Again we let it go thinking prewedding stress.  Fast forward to my moms bday, I always make a big deal about her birthday because her father was diagnosed with cancer on her 50th and later passed away.  This year we were going to my parents beach house for the weekend and out to dinner.  At the beach house we had redone a room for my brother and SIL, new paint, new comforter, and moved all his furniture and bed into a bigger quieter room.  When SIL got to the house she was unhappy with the furniture in the room and questioned me about it.  I told her it was what my mom wanted and moved on.  At dinner for my moms bday SIL sat with her arms folded, signing over and over while rolling her eyes and only speaking to my brother except when she was judging what my brothers friends had given them as wedding gifts.  By the end of the meal I had had enough and just stopped talking all together, it was that or completely explode.  This led to a HUGE fall out, my SIL wouldnt speak to me unless I apologized to her and explained why I acted the way I did, I asked her if we could agree to disagree and move on from here but she refused.  My mom tried to talk to her about it prior to our conversation but every time my mom tried to explain why I was upset my SIL had a new excuse for her behavior.  At this point my brother stopped speaking to me and refuses to talk anything out, we are going on month 3.  I just feel like if I do apologize it validate the way SIL treats me and my family and encourage her behavior. What I am most upset about is the lack of respect for my parents by both my brother and SIL because they are very very nice people who just give and give and I feel like arent being treated the way they deserve.  My brother is at the point where he is not speaking to my parents either because they agree with me. I just dont know how to go from here because I feel like my family is broken and every option seems to be lose lose. We have always been a very close family...

Re: Completely Lost

  • edited October 2015
    I apologize for this being long and possibly confusing I will try to make it as short as possible.  

    My brother has been with his now wife for 6 years, no one in the family likes her because of her lack of motivation (she refuses to work or move out of state and away from her parents to live with my brother) doubled with her high expectations which result in treating my brother like a work horse (something that is shared by all the women in her family).  

    What is this young lady by trade?

    Did she go to college or a specialty school, etc?

    Maybe there is something more to the story --- if she held a job and has been minus one for a good stretch of time, maybe it is the fact that she can't find a job.

    Then again, maybe she never saw a need to work, thanks to her parents -- maybe they supplied her with everything she asked for and "needed"...which is wrong! This is enablement and they ain't gonna be around forever, yanno.....  and if that is what her parents did --- handed her money when she needed it, bought her this when she needed it, spoiled her with everything she clapped her eyes on --- very bad and very wrong.

    What is she going to teach her kids? Crook your finger and Mom and Dad will give you what you want???

    How wrong.  Blame this on her parents for enabling her and codependency-ing it with their daughter.  This isn't a healthy parental-child relationship.

    Now I understand that this is not any of our business (even though they both complain about my brothers insane work hours to the family) so we put on a happy face and play nice, we have managed to be friends over the years.  

    My SIL is very spoiled by both her family and my brother which I feel has created a monster.  

    Yah, there's my answer....enablement and codependencies are odd things. Very odd things.:(

    Her parents are to blame for this mess, not your brother....and as the ole adage goes "A son is a son until he takes a wife." You will not expect any resolution here from him, or any admission from him when his wife is truly in the wrong: he will side with her which is terrible; this is already a maladjusted marriage. This does not bode well for them. It is not an equal partnership.'

    Her parents will not be around forever.... and H won't be around forever, either: what's her game plan if he dies or he can no longer work??

    This is truly terrible.  She's got nothing of her own to fall back on. Nothing.


    She demands every holiday and has yet to spend one with my parents or I.  

    Judging from what you told us, you have alluded to not being so crazy about her so why are you so touchy about your SIL never spending a holiday with you? Maybe she has done you a favor. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.:)


    My brother tries to avoid having to decide by working, at the beginning we would go stay with him during the holidays (he lives 4 hours away) but eventually I had to stop because I got married and had my own obligations.

    Over the years when my brother and my now SIL did spend time with us she would sit at the dinner table and not speak to anyone but my brother by whispering in his ear.  Nothing was ever mentioned and the behavior worsen.  

    My gosh, how impolite and how rude....or has this young lady got a problem that's a social one and a medical one?:(

    I think your best bet is this one:

    Host Christmas at your home and invite them and if they do not attend, their loss.

    They will not be able to say they were not invited,. You did your part.

    My parents me and my husband noticed that things get even worse (if it was possible) when they got engaged and the closer they came to their wedding.  My patience started to wear at SIL's shower when she was opening gifts and making comments about what people gave her.  

    My mom and dad had given SIL all of her luggage and a large amount of money to plan a VERY nice honeymoon as a shower gift. 

    After the shower for 2 weeks she was hounding my mom about what she actually paid for the luggage (that was on the registry) and if it was the correct luggage which made my mom feel as if her gift wasnt good enough. 

    We let it slide and chalked it up to wedding stress.  


    I blame this on rudeness, immaturity and ingraciousness. How awful of her.

    Closer to the wedding SIL was hounding me about my friend who was doing the hair and makeup (her choice not mine) and called my friend unprofessional to me because she was going to also do my moms makeup along with SIL and her own mother.

    This sounds like the-usual "Knot" behavior....hah; this is your typical bridezilla bride.

     Again we let it slide, although she is still complaining about it months later. 

    Some people need to learn how to choose their battles. She has not.

     Throughout the process my mom told SIL if there was anything she needed let her know and she would be happy to help.  6 days before the wedding when my mom was out of town SIL was demanding certain sized photos from my mom by that Tuesday.  My mom got in late Tuesday and wasnt able to give them to SIL until the rehearsal, in all the correct sizes along with frames that she could use if she needed/wanted to, which was 2 days before the wedding. SIL yelled at my mom and would not accept them.  

    Your mother needed to tell this young lady where it was at.

    My mom also got yelled at by SIL because her entire family could not fit at one table, my mom was gracious enough to host her aunts and cousins. Again we let it go thinking prewedding stress.  

    You guys better start standing up for what is right --- what is this horrific behavior going to be blamed on in the future???? Wrong is wrong.

    Has this young lady got some sort of social problem?

    If she has not, this is just plain childish of her. Somebody needs to take her down a button hole or a dozen lower.

    Fast forward to my moms bday, I always make a big deal about her birthday because her father was diagnosed with cancer on her 50th and later passed away.  This year we were going to my parents beach house for the weekend and out to dinner.  

    At the beach house we had redone a room for my brother and SIL, new paint, new comforter, and moved all his furniture and bed into a bigger quieter room.  When SIL got to the house she was unhappy with the furniture in the room and questioned me about it.  


    I told her it was what my mom wanted and moved on.  At dinner for my moms bday SIL sat with her arms folded, signing over and over while rolling her eyes and only speaking to my brother except when she was judging what my brothers friends had given them as wedding gifts.  

    "Signing"? Has she got a hearing impairment???

    That is one thing but being very rude is quite another: no excuse for any of this.

    By the end of the meal I had had enough and just stopped talking all together, it was that or completely explode.  

    This led to a HUGE fall out, my SIL wouldnt speak to me unless I apologized to her and explained why I acted the way I did, I asked her if we could agree to disagree and move on from here but she refused.  

    My mom tried to talk to her about it prior to our conversation but every time my mom tried to explain why I was upset my SIL had a new excuse for her behavior.  

    At this point my brother stopped speaking to me and refuses to talk anything out, we are going on month 3. 

    He is enabling her. I told you: this doesn't bode well for them and wow, somebody needs to stand up and tell her where to go. (Ultimately it should be your brother who should reel her in but that's not going to happen at any time soon)

    I just feel like if I do apologize it validate the way SIL treats me and my family and encourage her behavior.

    What I am most upset about is the lack of respect for my parents by both my brother and SIL because they are very very nice people who just give and give and I feel like arent being treated the way they deserve. 

    You are right -- it is rude --- and it is high time everybody stands up for their rights. I'd go as far as to say "If neither one of you can behave, and if neither one of you can come into this home and not bring conflict, rudeness and strife, then it is high tine that these visits end until the both of you learn some manners and are civil to all in attendance." And see where these 2 take it from there. 


     My brother is at the point where he is not speaking to my parents either because they agree with me. I just dont know how to go from here because I feel like my family is broken and every option seems to be lose lose. We have always been a very close family...

    There is nowhere to go from here, unless you and your parents wish to sit down with your bro and SIL and give them a nice hearty intervention.

    These 2 need to be read the riot act and told flat out "When you come into this home we fully expect civil and polite behavior from you both and no ifs ands or buts about it. If you disagree, you may speak to us some time in the future when the 2 of you are ready to put on your very best manners. If not -- goodbye and good luck"....

    But is that going to happen?

    Up to you and your parents to decide if it will.

    She is a problem, and a handful and it may be possible she has social problems. That would be for a professional to diagnose.

    Wishing you luck; I think it is best if you avoid the 2 of then. Sorry to hear about the bad behaviors.  




  • I wonder what will happen to Bro and SIL when kids come into the picture.

    I predict your brother will be a single parent and I predict that the kids will pick up on the fact that their mother uses bro (and others) as a doormat.

    And these kids won't be taught manners or how to act. This will be a real trip when it comes time for them to attend school. They will be discipline problems.

    This is a real mess that everybody's got on their hands, thanks to the fact they won't stand up for their rights and tell this young lady what's what.

    I strongly suggest reading her the riot act --- I mentioned it in the post above. She cannot be allowed to run rampant over everybody. The longer everyone puts off telling her she is out of line the worse the problem will be.

    Don't be a doormat or a whipping post for this young woman. She is way out of line and you have the right to speak up and tell her where it is at.


  • There is nothing you can do to change things. Continue on the path of not saying anything negative about her to him and when you have family functions, continue to extend invites, even if they don't come. Cotinue to send cards for whatever occasions you already to. Bascially letting him know that you still care about him and want to see him. Then hopefully one day he will wake up and realize he's had enough and make changes. Keeping the lines of communication open from your end will hopefully get him to make that decision easier because he won't have to worry about the "We told you so"
  • edited October 2015
    Erikan73 said:
    There is nothing you can do to change things. Continue on the path of not saying anything negative about her to him and when you have family functions, continue to extend invites, even if they don't come. Cotinue to send cards for whatever occasions you already to. Bascially letting him know that you still care about him and want to see him. Then hopefully one day he will wake up and realize he's had enough and make changes. Keeping the lines of communication open from your end will hopefully get him to make that decision easier because he won't have to worry about the "We told you so"

    Not likely to happen that he will wake up --- trust me on this one. I know of more than one guy in a wrong relationship and for years they have been taking guff from the nasty little women they are with.

    Send cards for occasions, yeah.

    But let her run rampant over you? NO. God helps those who helps themselves  and that nobody will stand up to her makes this a "you" problem insasmuch that 99% of this is standing up for your rights and making it clear she is not welcome in your home until she gets it she is to treat you, and everyone else there, civilly.

    If you don't stand up for your rights, this mess will go on for years.

    You have a right to fully expect civilness and you have a right to expect no rancor or bullshit happens in your home, particularly when company is present.

  • Erikan73 said:
    There is nothing you can do to change things. Continue on the path of not saying anything negative about her to him and when you have family functions, continue to extend invites, even if they don't come. Cotinue to send cards for whatever occasions you already to. Bascially letting him know that you still care about him and want to see him. Then hopefully one day he will wake up and realize he's had enough and make changes. Keeping the lines of communication open from your end will hopefully get him to make that decision easier because he won't have to worry about the "We told you so"

    Not likely to happen that he will wake up --- trust me on this one. I know of more than one guy in a wrong relationship and for years they have been taking guff from the nasty little women they are with.

    Send cards for occasions, yeah.

    But let her run rampant over you? NO. God helps those who helps themselves  and that nobody will stand up to her makes this a "you" problem insasmuch that 99% of this is standing up for your rights and making it clear she is not welcome in your home until she gets it she is to treat you, and everyone else there, civilly.

    If you don't stand up for your rights, this mess will go on for years.

    You have a right to fully expect civilness and you have a right to expect no rancor or bullshit happens in your home, particularly when company is present.


    I get where you are coming from, but if they aren't careful about how they "stand up" to her, they also risk losing him forever because then he will put up with her and her crap just out of spite because he doesn't want to prove the family right.
  • Erikan73 said:
    Erikan73 said:
    There is nothing you can do to change things. Continue on the path of not saying anything negative about her to him and when you have family functions, continue to extend invites, even if they don't come. Cotinue to send cards for whatever occasions you already to. Bascially letting him know that you still care about him and want to see him. Then hopefully one day he will wake up and realize he's had enough and make changes. Keeping the lines of communication open from your end will hopefully get him to make that decision easier because he won't have to worry about the "We told you so"

    Not likely to happen that he will wake up --- trust me on this one. I know of more than one guy in a wrong relationship and for years they have been taking guff from the nasty little women they are with.

    Send cards for occasions, yeah.

    But let her run rampant over you? NO. God helps those who helps themselves  and that nobody will stand up to her makes this a "you" problem insasmuch that 99% of this is standing up for your rights and making it clear she is not welcome in your home until she gets it she is to treat you, and everyone else there, civilly.

    If you don't stand up for your rights, this mess will go on for years.

    You have a right to fully expect civilness and you have a right to expect no rancor or bullshit happens in your home, particularly when company is present.


    I get where you are coming from, but if they aren't careful about how they "stand up" to her, they also risk losing him forever because then he will put up with her and her crap just out of spite because he doesn't want to prove the family right.

    It isn't likely he will see things his parents' way or his sis' way in the first place: You can see that this obnoxious thing that he married is "always right."

    Not likely that hold she's got on him will be broken --- she is dead wrong and her manners are horrid; if he cannot admit to this, he is a lost lost cause.

    I see nothing wrong with telling somebody that he or she is to act civilly in a home they are visiting. I am sure she'd want the same, obnoxious as she is.

    Bro is already "lost to the family" because of her. He is siding with her no matter how wrong she is.

    You can't let anyone run rampant over you, your home or your rules. Imperative it's made clear that civil behavior and being nice to everyone there is the rule.  If they don't like this.... it's too bad. Bro and his wife have cut their noses off to spite their faces.

    He needs to nip this in the bud before kids enter the picture. Boy will those kids get the wrong message: that it will be fine to let somebody use you as a doormat -- and that is exactly what she is doing to Bro and anybody from his possee: you, his parents, his friends, etc.

  • Sounds like the situation in my family ... except just to make things interesting, every once in a while, my sister-in-law acts normal and is talkative/nice to everyone.  Very confusing.  Time after time after time, it will be the not speaking to anyone else in the room but my brother, talking with him about anything and everything she can think of to distract him from conversations with US that he is actually engaged in.  Then about every fifth or sixth visit, she's like Miss Congeniality.  Ugh.

    To his credit, my poor brother knows she's nuttier than a fruitcake and he finds her just as annoying as we do. BUT they did vow to stick it out 'til death do they part and I guess that's his plan, more or less just hoping he outlives her! LOL!

    She's been our burden to bear for years, but the best thing about her is that she always gives us PLENTY to talk about after she walks out the door. Really, that is the best part of all family gatherings: the post-game analysis.  It's our favorite past time.  Embrace it, chick!  It's life and it's hilarious if you just let it be.

    short+sassy
  • I tried calling SIL this weekend to discuss things as my brother requested but I do refuse to apologize because I think this just encourages her bad behavior.  She never responded to me and neither did he.  I am at the point where I am done, I want to be left alone and my name to be removed from their mouths because it is causing more stress than necessary and my life is easier when they are not the topic of conversation (lately I have been getting anxiety over this).  Does anyone think this is a wise move?  I am prepared to tell my brother via voicemail to focus on his relationship with my parents and leave me out of it and stop talking about me.  My brother will only text my parents but then gets mad when they dont call him to talk even though he told them he doesnt want to talk.  I am tired of all these mixed signals I dont even think he knows what he wants.

    On a side note he did tell my mom from the little time they spoke that this is causing difficulty in their marriage and that his wedding was nothing but bad memories (not really sure what that means).  I know this is horrible but I hope they divorce.
    KyraNerys
  • Also if they do have children they will be the WORST behaved children ever!  SIL's niece is an absolute devil child!!! At SIL's wedding her brother in law told DH that he works till 10pm every night so he doesn't have to see his 5 year old daughter. Guess it runs in the family
    TarponMonoxide
  • I know this is horrible but I hope they divorce.

    My brother did try to leave once, but their daughter was only 9 at the time, no one in our family EVER divorces, and we all formed a united front against his leaving his family.  If he ever decides to go for it again, I'm helping him pack his bags. Kid is grown now.

    You are not horrible for thinking the way you think.  These types of women are lunatics, and I feel sorry for the men who get swept up in their wake and dragged down with them. :(


  • Also if they do have children they will be the WORST behaved children ever!  SIL's niece is an absolute devil child!!! At SIL's wedding her brother in law told DH that he works till 10pm every night so he doesn't have to see his 5 year old daughter. Guess it runs in the family
    Bet you the principal, teachers and child study team Loooooooove that young lady's parents.... what a shame.

    This is positively vile and sad.  Yet the father won't speak up and let his wife know -- oh, about a million years ago before the kiddo even was a glean in either pair of their eyes --- that they are coparenting the kids and the child will be brought up to follow rules.
  • Update:  I called SIL on the 9th but she has still yet to return my phone call.  My brother is now talking to me and I am hopeful that things are on the mend but I think it will be a long road.  He has a lot of issues he needs to sort out in regards to the family not approving of his wife (even though we are nice to her he still gets upset with us for not truly liking/loving her), I also think there may be other things going on that we are unaware of as well.  At this point I think I am going to hang tight, ball is in her court. 
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