Family Matters
Dear Community,

Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.

If you have questions about this, please email [email protected]

Thank you.

Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.

He insists on helping us...

As everyone knows, my husband and I have purchased a new home. We will be moving in late September. 

My husband does not want to hire movers this time. He will have one of my brothers to help him. 

My father and I are close. He's a very caring and encouraging parent. He wants to help us move. Since my father is 64 years old and suffers from hypertension as well as arthritis, my husband and I do not want him to help us move all of our belongings. We think that my father is too old to be moving heavy objects. We just want our poor old man to take it easy. 

Stubborn is my father's middle name because he insists on helping us. My husband and I think that my father's determined attitude towards assisting our move is very kind but we still don't want him to feel pain. 

How do you deal with older relatives who do not want to be mindful of their health issues?

Re: He insists on helping us...

  • VORVOR member
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper
    O.k. - I started out w/ one reply but then had to stop.

    64 isn't so old or incapacitated that someone that age can't do anything physical.  Nor should hypertension (assuming it's being treated!) really be a factor to keep people from being physical.

    Now. the arthritis, I can't speak to that and I don't know how much it affects your father. 

    But be careful about putting your dad into a "little old man who is too decrepit to do anything" box.

    That being said - a few thoughts:

    1- don't tell him when you're moving
    2- hire movers so that you don't need help
    3- let him help but task him w/ easy tasks that won't affect his arthritis
  • It's not your job to limit a man's tasks if he is mentally capable of deciding for himself what he can and cannot do. It's insulting to his manhood. Remember, he wants to "be young."

    However, you CAN decide a head of time all the boxes you want your dad to move. Maybe put them in one place and tell him - "That's your pile over there." So, you maintain his dignity, yet you steer him to lifting items that aren't going to put him into pain for the next few days.

    Another great idea, is to have him be the "in the truck manager." Someone needs to be in the truck telling people where to put things to make a good "stack." He might like that leadership role.

  • NoneForUsNoneForUs member
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited August 2015
    VOR said:
    O.k. - I started out w/ one reply but then had to stop.

    64 isn't so old or incapacitated that someone that age can't do anything physical.  Nor should hypertension (assuming it's being treated!) really be a factor to keep people from being physical.

    Now. the arthritis, I can't speak to that and I don't know how much it affects your father. 

    But be careful about putting your dad into a "little old man who is too decrepit to do anything" box.

    That being said - a few thoughts:

    1- don't tell him when you're moving
    2- hire movers so that you don't need help
    3- let him help but task him w/ easy tasks that won't affect his arthritis



    Did I say that my father is incapacitated or decrepit because he is 64? 
    I am sorry that you need to put words in my mouth to make your point. 
    There's really no need for you to get so upset that you have to change your reply. 

    My concerns are around my father's health and not his age. He has passed out from hypertension while cutting up vegetables, so it makes sense that I would be a bit wary of letting my father help us move. There is a difference between healthy exercise and heavy physical activity. 

    We have decided not to hire movers and we already have help from my oldest sibling. My father wanted to help as well. I think that we may let him drive the truck or just handle light objects. 
  • NoneForUsNoneForUs member
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited August 2015

    It's not your job to limit a man's tasks if he is mentally capable of deciding for himself what he can and cannot do. It's insulting to his manhood. Remember, he wants to "be young."

    However, you CAN decide a head of time all the boxes you want your dad to move. Maybe put them in one place and tell him - "That's your pile over there." So, you maintain his dignity, yet you steer him to lifting items that aren't going to put him into pain for the next few days.

    Another great idea, is to have him be the "in the truck manager." Someone needs to be in the truck telling people where to put things to make a good "stack." He might like that leadership role.



    If the tasks directly pertain to me, I have the right to decide who helps me with them and for what reason. I have never said nor implied that my father cannot think for himself. I do know that he is not mindful of how his illnesses affect his life because of the same pride you were speaking of. 

    We all want to "be young" and do the same things we did as younger people forever. Sadly, that is simply not what happens in most people's lives. There are certain things that I could do in my 20s that I cannot manage now. There's no shame in that. 

    I like the truck manager idea. 




  • NoneForUs said:

    It's not your job to limit a man's tasks if he is mentally capable of deciding for himself what he can and cannot do. It's insulting to his manhood. Remember, he wants to "be young."

    However, you CAN decide a head of time all the boxes you want your dad to move. Maybe put them in one place and tell him - "That's your pile over there." So, you maintain his dignity, yet you steer him to lifting items that aren't going to put him into pain for the next few days.

    Another great idea, is to have him be the "in the truck manager." Someone needs to be in the truck telling people where to put things to make a good "stack." He might like that leadership role.



    If the tasks directly pertain to me, I have the right to decide who helps me with them and for what reason. I have never said nor implied that my father cannot think for himself. I do know that he is not mindful of how his illnesses affect his life because of the same pride you were speaking of. 

    We all want to "be young" and do the same things we did as younger people forever. Sadly, that is simply not what happens in most people's lives. There are certain things that I could do in my 20s that I cannot manage now. There's no shame in that. 

    I like the truck manager idea. 



    You posted a question here on the TN for peoples' feedback and input. But, you seem stabby and irritated about the 2 responses, thus far, you have received. If you are set in your ideas about having your dad help (or not), why ask for further advice from Nesties? And, why be upset when you get "advice" that disagrees with your position? You asked US. WE answered. Don't get upset.

    I'm 33. DH is 37. My mom, MIL, FIL are all 63. My dad is 71. I very much understand where you're coming from with concerns about his age and well-being during a move. But, it's not your job to tell your dad what his physical limitations are or to insist that help or not help for health reasons. It's not your job to assume your dad's physical limitations either. Let him decide.

    If you just want non-family help, then go that route. But, clearly you are making this specifically about ONE family member as you are getting assistance from someone your own age (or near your own age) - your brother.

    Yep. These tasks directly pertain to you. But, by posting this post you are making it about your dad. Basically, you don't want his help because he's old and you lack confidence in his abilities or that he won't hurt himself.

    If he has the aptitude to be informed about his health conditions, and he has the mental capacity to decide for himself what he can and cannot do, then why are you fighting him on not helping? This makes no sense to me. Let the man help!!!

  • NoneForUs said:

    It's not your job to limit a man's tasks if he is mentally capable of deciding for himself what he can and cannot do. It's insulting to his manhood. Remember, he wants to "be young."

    However, you CAN decide a head of time all the boxes you want your dad to move. Maybe put them in one place and tell him - "That's your pile over there." So, you maintain his dignity, yet you steer him to lifting items that aren't going to put him into pain for the next few days.

    Another great idea, is to have him be the "in the truck manager." Someone needs to be in the truck telling people where to put things to make a good "stack." He might like that leadership role.



    If the tasks directly pertain to me, I have the right to decide who helps me with them and for what reason. I have never said nor implied that my father cannot think for himself. I do know that he is not mindful of how his illnesses affect his life because of the same pride you were speaking of. 

    We all want to "be young" and do the same things we did as younger people forever. Sadly, that is simply not what happens in most people's lives. There are certain things that I could do in my 20s that I cannot manage now. There's no shame in that. 

    I like the truck manager idea. 




    Bolded. Clearly, you've decided and aren't open to input. So this begs the question, why did you pose this question to a public forum for discussion if you aren't open to receving feedback and ideas?
    VOR
  • BlueBirdMBBlueBirdMB member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited August 2015
    I agree that you've already decided that your father shouldn't help.  I'm unsure why you posted since you have already made up your mind and aren't open to anyone with a different opinion. 

    Our parents are pretty much the same age.  My father also has hypertension and arthritis.  He'd die of embarrassment if I told him he was too old or sick to help if he offered.  My mother would feel the same.  I would never ask them to help, but I wouldn't tell them they were too old or sick to help.  It's their choice and I assume that they can judge for themselves how they feel.  They haven't offered to help with specific tasks because I know they don't feel up to it.  On the other hand, I also wouldn't have much for them to do, "conveniently", if they wanted to help.  
  • NoneForUsNoneForUs member
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited August 2015

    NoneForUs said:

    It's not your job to limit a man's tasks if he is mentally capable of deciding for himself what he can and cannot do. It's insulting to his manhood. Remember, he wants to "be young."

    However, you CAN decide a head of time all the boxes you want your dad to move. Maybe put them in one place and tell him - "That's your pile over there." So, you maintain his dignity, yet you steer him to lifting items that aren't going to put him into pain for the next few days.

    Another great idea, is to have him be the "in the truck manager." Someone needs to be in the truck telling people where to put things to make a good "stack." He might like that leadership role.



    If the tasks directly pertain to me, I have the right to decide who helps me with them and for what reason. I have never said nor implied that my father cannot think for himself. I do know that he is not mindful of how his illnesses affect his life because of the same pride you were speaking of. 

    We all want to "be young" and do the same things we did as younger people forever. Sadly, that is simply not what happens in most people's lives. There are certain things that I could do in my 20s that I cannot manage now. There's no shame in that. 

    I like the truck manager idea. 



    You posted a question here on the TN for peoples' feedback and input. But, you seem stabby and irritated about the 2 responses, thus far, you have received. If you are set in your ideas about having your dad help (or not), why ask for further advice from Nesties? And, why be upset when you get "advice" that disagrees with your position? You asked US. WE answered. Don't get upset.

    I'm 33. DH is 37. My mom, MIL, FIL are all 63. My dad is 71. I very much understand where you're coming from with concerns about his age and well-being during a move. But, it's not your job to tell your dad what his physical limitations are or to insist that help or not help for health reasons. It's not your job to assume your dad's physical limitations either. Let him decide.

    If you just want non-family help, then go that route. But, clearly you are making this specifically about ONE family member as you are getting assistance from someone your own age (or near your own age) - your brother.

    Yep. These tasks directly pertain to you. But, by posting this post you are making it about your dad. Basically, you don't want his help because he's old and you lack confidence in his abilities or that he won't hurt himself.

    If he has the aptitude to be informed about his health conditions, and he has the mental capacity to decide for himself what he can and cannot do, then why are you fighting him on not helping? This makes no sense to me. Let the man help!!!

    Most people would be irritated if their words were twisted. There was nothing wrong with the advice I was given. However, I didn't appreciate being responded to as though I referred to my father as "decrepit." 

    I do not lack confidence in my father's abilities. I am simply being mindful of his health problems the way a caring adult child would be. If my dad's arthritis pain worsened because he was helping me move or he passed out again, I would feel guilty and sad for my father. I am sorry if you think that is so awful and belittling. I have good intentions even if that isn't obvious to you. 

    My question was not whether or not my father should help. It was how to deal with family members who do not think of their health issues when they go about their activities. 

    I have certain illnesses which are exacerbated by stress and lack of sleep. When my father asks me if I can handle something that I want to do, I don't feel insulted because I know he is just being a concerned parent. 

    You are making assumptions about my family as well. For your information, my older brother is more than 12 years older than I. He is not close to my age compared to other family members. If my brother had the same health issues, we would not want him to help us either. 

    To be honest, I don't think that you understand how I feel at all. You posted two answers in order to confront me about the way I responded to other posts. When I read your words, they come across as very aggressive and shouting with the exclamation marks. That aggression makes me feel attacked while I share a sensitive issue. I would rather not go through the ordeal of watching my father faint again and having to call an ambulance. Thanks for your responses. 
  • I agree that you've already decided that your father shouldn't help.  I'm unsure why you posted since you have already made up your mind and aren't open to anyone with a different opinion. 

    Our parents are pretty much the same age.  My father also has hypertension and arthritis.  He'd die of embarrassment if I told him he was too old or sick to help if he offered.  My mother would feel the same.  I would never ask them to help, but I wouldn't tell them they were too old or sick to help.  It's their choice and I assume that they can judge for themselves how they feel.  They haven't offered to help with specific tasks because I know they don't feel up to it.  On the other hand, I also wouldn't have much for them to do, "conveniently", if they wanted to help.  
    My question was never "Should my father help us move?" If  you read my first post, you will see that I asked how to deal with family members who are not mindful of their health issues. 
  • VORVOR member
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper

     
    Oh good grief.  Yes, I used the word "decrepit" but YOU wrote "We just want our poor old man to take it easy".  That paints a picture that you see your father as a little old man who can't do anything for himself. I.e. decrepit. 

    You didn't talk about the reasons WHY.  you just said "he has hypertension and arthritis".  My DH has hypertension too.  He doesn't pass out from cutting vegetables.  Without knowing more behind your reasoning, I'm going to pull in my own experiences to work from. 

    We can only work form what you wrote.  You didn't tell us your brother is 12 years older, you didn't tell us your dad passes out easily.  The less information you give us, the more we're going to pull in from our own experiences.  Give us more information, we can more directly answer your question. 

    And please show me where all these exclamation points are that made you feel like we were shouting?  I used one, ONE, exclamation point after one pretty innocuous point.  


  • Yeah...I used a total of 3 exclamation points in all 3 of my posts. The three I used were limited to one post and all limited to the last sentence. I did this, "!!!"

    I agree with VOR, you gave vague information about your father and brother. And you also used language that described your father as "old and decrepit" or at least led readers here to infer that was what you meant.

    You said in the OP, "Since my father is 64 years old and suffers from hypertension as well as arthritis, my husband and I do not want him to help us move all of our belongings. We think that my father is too old to be moving heavy objects. We just want our poor old man to take it easy."

    Posters were responding to your bolded text.

    Also, how on earth could any of us make an informed response when we didn't know he passed out cutting veggies? You left that out of the OP = your fault.. But you get annoyed with posters who respond based on the facts and data you did first provide.

    I hear you - you have valid concerns about your dad's health. I get it. Then, move secretly or hire it done and don't tell him. Or, have him come and communicate your worry/concern but let him ultimately decide what he wants to do.

    What are you going to do if he comes and he begins to move boxes - yell at him, tie him up, force him into his car to leave? I just don't see how any of us can insist our older parents in ill health do or not do certain things. They are still adults with their own mental faculties and while we have concerns (valid ones) for their well-being and health, they are ultimately in charge of their activities and bodies.

    That's how I respond to family members with health issues - I share my thoughts politely and ultimately realize its their personal decision with what they want to or don't want to do.


     

    VOR
  • What about having him help with lighter chores, like taking clothes you have hanging in your closet and putting them in the backseat of a car. Give him a cooler to pack up the fridge & freezer for you while the heavy stuff is being removed. Also you can put him charge of making sure all the closets and drawers have been emptied and if you plan to clean the house after it's empty. Maybe he can vacuum each room for you as it gets emptied. All those things would be helpful to your but would take into consideration the concerns you have about your fathers health.

    short+sassyNoneForUs
  • VOR said:

     
    Oh good grief.  Yes, I used the word "decrepit" but YOU wrote "We just want our poor old man to take it easy".  That paints a picture that you see your father as a little old man who can't do anything for himself. I.e. decrepit. 

    You didn't talk about the reasons WHY.  you just said "he has hypertension and arthritis".  My DH has hypertension too.  He doesn't pass out from cutting vegetables.  Without knowing more behind your reasoning, I'm going to pull in my own experiences to work from. 

    We can only work form what you wrote.  You didn't tell us your brother is 12 years older, you didn't tell us your dad passes out easily.  The less information you give us, the more we're going to pull in from our own experiences.  Give us more information, we can more directly answer your question. 

    And please show me where all these exclamation points are that made you feel like we were shouting?  I used one, ONE, exclamation point after one pretty innocuous point.  


    If you didn't have very much information, it would have been better to ask questions rather than making assumptions. That's what I do when someone comes to me with an issue and I'm not completely sure of all the details. I can see that you obviously do not communicate the same way. 

    I have arthritis is my left hand too. It flares up in damp and cold weather. 

    When I spoke of exclamation marks, I clearly quoted another user so I'm not sure why you thought that I was speaking to you or even about you. 

    Thanks for your responses. 
  • Erikan73 said:

    What about having him help with lighter chores, like taking clothes you have hanging in your closet and putting them in the backseat of a car. Give him a cooler to pack up the fridge & freezer for you while the heavy stuff is being removed. Also you can put him charge of making sure all the closets and drawers have been emptied and if you plan to clean the house after it's empty. Maybe he can vacuum each room for you as it gets emptied. All those things would be helpful to your but would take into consideration the concerns you have about your fathers health.

    I greatly appreciate your kind and respectful response. I'm glad that you understand that my intention was to be mindful of my father's health. I am shocked that some people are behaving as if I am so awful because I care about my father's comfort. The reality is that my father is no longer the spry and healthy 40 year old he was. This makes me sad and protective of my dear dad. 

    I wouldn't ask my father to pack up the cooler only because the cold freezer would aggravate his arthritis. We won't be cleaning our apartment after we leave because it will be completely gutted and renovated after we are gone. I like the idea of asking my father to complete lighter chores and I love your suggestions. 
  • VORVOR member
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper
    I'm not having a face to face conversation with you.  The luxury of asking fact finding questions doesn't really work around here. I want to say "are you new" but I don't think you are.  You know how posting works. 

    You didn't give us a lot of information.  Own at least that much while you're getting answers you clearly don't want. 

    The fact that I DID give you suggestions seems to be lost because you got defensive because I dared to say that you seem to your dad as being "decrepit".  "Poor little old man" seems to means something else to you.  That's fine.  

    But again- you KNOW how these boards work.  I don't know you. I don't know the intricacies of you or your life.  As slow as these boards are, people don't ask a lot of clarifying questions.  It seems 1/2 the posters never even bother to come back, so.... I'm going to give advice based on what is put in front of me the first time. 

     
  • @NoneForUs you are being very sensitive and completely overreacting.  You tend to look for hints that people are attacking you, when rarely, people are.
    MommyLiberty5013VORals1982
  • NoneForUs said:
    Erikan73 said:

    What about having him help with lighter chores, like taking clothes you have hanging in your closet and putting them in the backseat of a car. Give him a cooler to pack up the fridge & freezer for you while the heavy stuff is being removed. Also you can put him charge of making sure all the closets and drawers have been emptied and if you plan to clean the house after it's empty. Maybe he can vacuum each room for you as it gets emptied. All those things would be helpful to your but would take into consideration the concerns you have about your fathers health.

    I greatly appreciate your kind and respectful response. I'm glad that you understand that my intention was to be mindful of my father's health. I am shocked that some people are behaving as if I am so awful because I care about my father's comfort. The reality is that my father is no longer the spry and healthy 40 year old he was. This makes me sad and protective of my dear dad. 

    I wouldn't ask my father to pack up the cooler only because the cold freezer would aggravate his arthritis. We won't be cleaning our apartment after we leave because it will be completely gutted and renovated after we are gone. I like the idea of asking my father to complete lighter chores and I love your suggestions. 

    Ack. And everybody who responded before in disagreement are a bunch of ogres and mean grumpy giants pounding their fists at you. Oh for heaven's sakes. You make yourself sound like a victim.

    You were the one to call your dad a "poor little old man." You criticize us for making responses based on that. Are you seriously suggesting that we ought to have asked you probing questions on your statement...like..."Do you really mean to call him a 'poor little old man?'" How are any posters supposed to know that that's NOT what you actually meant in your OP?

    That's like a poster stating she is sad and then a responding poster questioning her on the validity of her emotion - it doesn't work that way on here. You called him old, little and poor and that's what we responded to. How could we possibly know otherwise? Or, to know that that isn't want you meant?

    Yes, you were talking to me about he exclamation points. All total (because I cannot sleep and I counted), VOR used a total of 1 exclamation point in all her posts. No other posters used exclamation points. I, on the other hand, used 3 exclamation points at the end of one sentence in one of my several posts.

    So, for this discussion, you have been given a total of 4 exclamation points, 3 are from me. And, therefore you got sensitive about my 3 exclamation points. You don't have to deny it. So, to me this is proof enough that you are looking for insult here.

    By the way, I don't go out of my way to be mean or rude to people on TN. I'm a very kind hearted poster here and will generally be diplomatic rather than stabby with folks, even if I disagree with them. But, what really gets me is when a person asks for advice or input or ideas, here and then gets responses and then treats the responders like the mean kids on the block.

    I still stand by my original advice about your dad. And, I don't get how you laying out your physical problems ought to change our responses. Because I have my own share of health issues and I STILL stand by my opinion of your dad getting to decide for himself.



    VOR
  • @NoneForUs you are being very sensitive and completely overreacting.  You tend to look for hints that people are attacking you, when rarely, people are.
    Thank you for judging me. 
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards