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Double Jeopardy?

I understand that things can still happen to GZ in civil court with being sued by TM's family (if they go this route) since that deals with financial restitution and not criminal behavior.

But how is further criminal prosecution of GZ via the DOJ or another legal entity not a violation of our nation's double jeopardy laws?

They could try him for something other than manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, right?  

 

Re: Double Jeopardy?

  • They would try GZ for denying TM his civil rights, not for murder.
  • Right - double jeopardy only means you can't be tried twice for the same crime. They could charge him with something different and double jeopardy wouldn't apply. 
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  • snp605snp605 member
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    image MommyLiberty5013:

    I understand that things can still happen to GZ in civil court with being sued by TM's family (if they go this route) since that deals with financial restitution and not criminal behavior.

    But how is further criminal prosecution of GZ via the DOJ or another legal entity not a violation of our nation's double jeopardy laws?

    They could try him for something other than manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, right?  

     

     

    Actually if Zimmerman has his Stand Your Ground hearing and wins (which here is only a miniscule chance that he wouldn't) then the civil suit gets thrown out and then the family would have to pay his legal expenses. I think the talk of a civil suit has been premature by the family.

     The Federal charges would be for alleged violation of a federal law that wasn't addressed in the state case. He wouldn't be tried for the same crime twice which is what Double Jeopardy is about.

    image
  • image snp605:
    image MommyLiberty5013:

    I understand that things can still happen to GZ in civil court with being sued by TM's family (if they go this route) since that deals with financial restitution and not criminal behavior.

    But how is further criminal prosecution of GZ via the DOJ or another legal entity not a violation of our nation's double jeopardy laws?

    They could try him for something other than manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, right?  

     

     

    Actually if Zimmerman has his Stand Your Ground hearing and wins (which here is only a miniscule chance that he wouldn't) then the civil suit gets thrown out and then the family would have to pay his legal expenses. I think the talk of a civil suit has been premature by the family.

     The Federal charges would be for alleged violation of a federal law that wasn't addressed in the state case. He wouldn't be tried for the same crime twice which is what Double Jeopardy is about.

    This is really so upsetting.  syg is a terrible law in my opinion.  Just terrible.  I can maybe understand it in your own home (castle doctrine) but when it extends beyond your home, to the streets, this is the type of tragic, scary outcome that results. 

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  • I'm torn on this syg law. If I'm jumped on the streets by a man who repeatedly bashes my head into the ground and repeatedly punches me in the face, whom I have all right to believe he can and may beat me to death...and I have a weapon on me and it is the only means of defending myself since I am pinned to the ground, it should be illegal for me to use it? That's ridiculous to me. If I had to choose between someone beating me to death or shooting them to live, I believe I have that right to defend my life.

    However, I do understand where the grey area comes in. Murderers can just use the law as an excuse. What is sad to me is how laws that are meant to protect law abiding citizens are taken advantage of.

    "Judging a person does not define who they are. It defines who you are."
  • image Amanda1443994:

    I'm torn on this syg law. If I'm jumped on the streets by a man who repeatedly bashes my head into the ground and repeatedly punches me in the face, whom I have all right to believe he can and may beat me to death...and I have a weapon on me and it is the only means of defending myself since I am pinned to the ground, it should be illegal for me to use it? That's ridiculous to me. If I had to choose between someone beating me to death or shooting them to live, I believe I have that right to defend my life.

    However, I do understand where the grey area comes in. Murderers can just use the law as an excuse. What is sad to me is how laws that are meant to protect law abiding citizens are taken advantage of.

    you're not understandin syg.  In your situation you described you would absolutely have a regular self defense claim.  In any state.   Please see my post in previous thread regarding the syg difference (ie no duty to retreat).  Zimmerman would have had a duty to retreat in most states (because he didnt avoid confrontation, in fact, he started the confrontation).

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  • I don't understand how GZ violated TM's civil rights?  In general the Justice Department doesn't investigate civil rights violations on an individual basis unless one of the individuals works for the government.  I could understand a possible violation if GZ had been a police officer, etc.  But he is simply an individual. How would this case be different?

  • image lasposa425:
    image snp605:
    image MommyLiberty5013:

    I understand that things can still happen to GZ in civil court with being sued by TM's family (if they go this route) since that deals with financial restitution and not criminal behavior.

    But how is further criminal prosecution of GZ via the DOJ or another legal entity not a violation of our nation's double jeopardy laws?

    They could try him for something other than manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, right?  

     

     

    Actually if Zimmerman has his Stand Your Ground hearing and wins (which here is only a miniscule chance that he wouldn't) then the civil suit gets thrown out and then the family would have to pay his legal expenses. I think the talk of a civil suit has been premature by the family.

     The Federal charges would be for alleged violation of a federal law that wasn't addressed in the state case. He wouldn't be tried for the same crime twice which is what Double Jeopardy is about.

    This is really so upsetting.  syg is a terrible law in my opinion.  Just terrible.  I can maybe understand it in your own home (castle doctrine) but when it extends beyond your home, to the streets, this is the type of tragic, scary outcome that results. 

    So, you don't want to be protected by SYG law if your are assaulted and raped and happen to fight back with a lethal outcome for your assailant? 

  • ML - you're not understanding syg.  Please see my previous post.  If you're being attacked on the street, you have a self-defense claim. That is separate from syg.
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  • Here's another, perhaps clearer, example. If I'm in a fancy car (the zero to 60mph in a few seconds kind)at a stoplight in florida and someone comes at me with a knife. I can, under florida law, just shoot the perp instead of just slamming the gas and escaping.  That's syg.  In duty to retreat states, I would have been obligated to at least try to escape first.  Syg is very wild wild west if you ask me.
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  • image Amanda1443994:

    I'm torn on this syg law. If I'm jumped on the streets by a man who repeatedly bashes my head into the ground and repeatedly punches me in the face, whom I have all right to believe he can and may beat me to death...and I have a weapon on me and it is the only means of defending myself since I am pinned to the ground, it should be illegal for me to use it? That's ridiculous to me. If I had to choose between someone beating me to death or shooting them to live, I believe I have that right to defend my life.

    However, I do understand where the grey area comes in. Murderers can just use the law as an excuse. What is sad to me is how laws that are meant to protect law abiding citizens are taken advantage of.

    Stand Your Ground =/= self defense. Every state has a self-defense statute. Not every state has SYG. SYG specifically removes the duty to retreat. So, if some guy comes up to you and starts threatening you, and you have the ability to just walk away safely, in most states, you have a legal obligation to do that. Stand Your Ground means that you have the option of just shooting and killing him instead of walking away.

    image
  • image Amanda1443994:

    I'm torn on this syg law. If I'm jumped on the streets by a man who repeatedly bashes my head into the ground and repeatedly punches me in the face, whom I have all right to believe he can and may beat me to death...and I have a weapon on me and it is the only means of defending myself since I am pinned to the ground, it should be illegal for me to use it? That's ridiculous to me. If I had to choose between someone beating me to death or shooting them to live, I believe I have that right to defend my life.

    However, I do understand where the grey area comes in. Murderers can just use the law as an excuse. What is sad to me is how laws that are meant to protect law abiding citizens are taken advantage of.

     

    In your scenario I totally agree with your position.  Where the problem comes in is people seem to believe that they can approach and initiate a confrontation with someone who is walking along minding their own business and then when a fight ensues in which the initiator is losing, he can pull out a gun and shoot someone dead because he felt his life was threatened.  Basically, I have a problem with people starting shyt and then when they are getting their azzes kicked, the law allows them to pull out a gun and kill someone.  I believe in my soul that this is what happened in the GZ/TM case.  I'll believe that till the day I die.

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