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4Health Dry Food

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Re: 4Health Dry Food

  • I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

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  • image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    Josie, I think this is the best explanation I've seen! YesYes

    Mom to:
    Miles (6 year old Maine C00n mix), Boots (5 year old Lab mix), Darla (4 year old GSD/Collie mix), Frankie (1.5 year old DSH mix), Peanut (15 months old - 09/11), and Bean (arriving Feb 2013).
  • image Dork_Fish:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    Josie, I think this is the best explanation I've seen! YesYes

    Ditto! Fantastic breakdown. 

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  • image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.
    image
    DD born 1.25.15

  • image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    But part of the point being made is that the nutritional content of these cheaper "fillers" is considered adequate for the animal's survival, but the more expensive ingredients have even better nutritional value, leading the animal to truly thrive. The fillers aren't a wholy "unnecessary" ingredient for these mainstream companies, because they use filler ingredients that do contain plenty of calories and adequate nutrients to pass something like the AAFCO standards, but they're not of sufficient quality to really make the most of your pet's life. 

    image image
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
    TTC since July 2012
    BFP #1: 11/9/13; spontaneous m/c at 6w2d, 11/25/13
    BFP #2: 12/31/13. B/w 12/31: betas >1000, progesterone 13.6; B/w 1/2: betas 3065, progesterone 10.2
    B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
    Progesterone suppositories started 1/2. Please stick, baby!!
    Fiona Elise born 9/9/14 - welcome beautiful girl!
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  • image LuckyAngel07:
    image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    But part of the point being made is that the nutritional content of these cheaper "fillers" is considered adequate for the animal's survival, but the more expensive ingredients have even better nutritional value, leading the animal to truly thrive. The fillers aren't a wholy "unnecessary" ingredient for these mainstream companies, because they use filler ingredients that do contain plenty of calories and adequate nutrients to pass something like the AAFCO standards, but they're not of sufficient quality to really make the most of your pet's life. 

    THAT is what I am saying is quite untrue. Your opinion deems it to be of higher nutritional value not evidence. And no matter what quality of ingredients used if they are not in an appropriate balance it is not an ideal food.
    image
    DD born 1.25.15

  • Aggiebug, please... enlighten me. What is your "ideal" dog/cat food?
    image
    They see us rollin'...they be hatin'.
  • image River Pestie:
    Aggiebug, please... enlighten me. What is your "ideal" dog/cat food?
    There is no ideal dog food. I truly believe in using what works best for that animal. Dogs have allergies and intolerances just like people and some dogs don't do well on specific foods. Some need a very limited protein diet so need more energy dense diet while others need a high fiber/ low calorie diet. And the list goes on. My primary concern with the niche market foods is most do not have a nutritionist on staff to ensure that their foods have a consistent and useable nutritional balance. Considering they are on the same diet daily an imbalance can lead to some long term problems. Not to mention their excess protein and fat. Not necessarily a bad thing in a healthy dog but unnecessary for sure. If you get systemic problems then the fat and protein content can cause problems. I have plenty of patients on niche market foods, and I don't pressure them to change. Do I talk about diet and nutrition? Of course I do, but I do that with basically all my clients.
    image
    DD born 1.25.15

  • image aggiebug:
    image River Pestie:
    Aggiebug, please... enlighten me. What is your "ideal" dog/cat food?
    There is no ideal dog food. I truly believe in using what works best for that animal. Dogs have allergies and intolerances just like people and some dogs don't do well on specific foods. Some need a very limited protein diet so need more energy dense diet while others need a high fiber/ low calorie diet. And the list goes on. My primary concern with the niche market foods is most do not have a nutritionist on staff to ensure that their foods have a consistent and useable nutritional balance. Considering they are on the same diet daily an imbalance can lead to some long term problems. Not to mention their excess protein and fat. Not necessarily a bad thing in a healthy dog but unnecessary for sure. If you get systemic problems then the fat and protein content can cause problems. I have plenty of patients on niche market foods, and I don't pressure them to change. Do I talk about diet and nutrition? Of course I do, but I do that with basically all my clients.

    Great response!!! I completely agree that all dogs/cats are different and that different foods work for different animals. It took a long time to get the right food for my dog (sensitive stomach, shedding, etc.) The best person to talk to is your vet (just like people talk to your doctor) and discuss your concerns and questions. I tried all kinds of food and found out the Blue Buffalo works best for my dog.

    Anniversary
  • image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    You.. make my head hurt. People don't buy a bag based on it's total nutrient content. They eat it based on how big of a bag it is, and how long that bag will last.

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  • image Josie22:
    image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    You.. make my head hurt. People don't buy a bag based on it's total nutrient content. They eat it based on how big of a bag it is, and how long that bag will last.

     

    That may not be what they think when they are buying food but that is basically what they are doing.  Like you said they buy based on how long a bag lasts which is directly dependent on the nutritional density of the food. A bag isn't fed based on an arbitrary amount, it is fed based on nutritional content

     

    edited for clarity I hope.  

    image
    DD born 1.25.15

  • image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    this cost is passed onto the consumer.  on purina pro plan, my dogs ate 4 to 4.5 cups a day.  on canidae, my dogs ate 3 cups a day.  so purina spent less producing the food, and got me to buy more food.  win win for them.  lose for the sucker who has to pick up my dog's poo and pay for their food.

    image
    Have you seen my monkey?
  • image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:
    image aggiebug:
    image Josie22:

    I think a little math might help you understand why they add fillers. So, I'm going to show you why they add fillers.

    For this example the food company needs to produce a 100 lb bag of food. Lets say high nutrient meat costs $0.40/lb, high nutrient fruits/veggies cost $0.20/lb and filler costs $0.10/lb just to make the math easier. If a company only uses high nutrient meat at 75% and high nutrient fruits/veggies at 25% the bag would cost: $35. They could cut that cost down pretty easy by doing 25% high nutrient meat, 25% high nutrient fruit/veggies and 50% fillers. Making the total cost equal $20 to produce.

    By-products and fillers are cheaper to purchase. So adding them in makes the total cost of production less.

    But you are forgetting that the DOG's nutrient requirements are not based on volumes. So this is a moot point. The cost of production of food per month would still be the same. Well actually adding useless ingredients would increase the cost of food since it still cost money to add an unnecessary ingredient. So again the cost of production per month of food increases.

    You.. make my head hurt. People don't buy a bag based on it's total nutrient content. They eat it based on how big of a bag it is, and how long that bag will last.

     

    That may not be what they think when they are buying food but that is basically what they are doing.  Like you said they buy based on how long a bag lasts which is directly dependent on the nutritional density of the food. A bag isn't fed based on an arbitrary amount, it is fed based on nutritional content

     

    edited for clarity I hope.  

    most people buy based on cost.  which is why crap in a bag like pedigree sells so well.  if they based it on how long it lasted, more people would be feeding canidae.  i feed according to my dogs' ribbage and waist, completely ignoring the guidelines on the bag.  a bag of canidae lasted longer than purina pro plan.  it did cost minimally more ($5 more for a 35# bag of canidae than the 40#bag of purina), but cost less in the long run.

    and no i don't sell canidae.  back in the day i fed purina pro plan, nutro natural choice, Nature's variety, and canidae.  i settled on canidae because it was the most cost effective, and it magically appeared on my doorstep once a month. 

    image
    Have you seen my monkey?
  • you are right I don't this pedigree is a good food. I tend to promote getting on a different diet. It's not as bad as Alpo but its not great. I am glad you feel you have found a dog food that works for your dog. That doesn't mean Hill and Purina are bad foods. Which was my original point.
    image
    DD born 1.25.15

  • image aggiebug:
    image River Pestie:
    Aggiebug, please... enlighten me. What is your "ideal" dog/cat food?
    There is no ideal dog food. I truly believe in using what works best for that animal. Dogs have allergies and intolerances just like people and some dogs don't do well on specific foods. Some need a very limited protein diet so need more energy dense diet while others need a high fiber/ low calorie diet. And the list goes on. My primary concern with the niche market foods is most do not have a nutritionist on staff to ensure that their foods have a consistent and useable nutritional balance. Considering they are on the same diet daily an imbalance can lead to some long term problems. Not to mention their excess protein and fat. Not necessarily a bad thing in a healthy dog but unnecessary for sure. If you get systemic problems then the fat and protein content can cause problems. I have plenty of patients on niche market foods, and I don't pressure them to change. Do I talk about diet and nutrition? Of course I do, but I do that with basically all my clients.

     

    I understand that there are animals with intolerances and allergies, etc.. That wasn't my question. Maybe I should re-word it, so you can understand what I am really asking.

    What brand of food do you feed YOUR pets?

    image
    They see us rollin'...they be hatin'.
  • I think I understood your question and gave you my honest opinion on the ideal food. I find it irrelevant what my dog is on, because as I stated above no one dog food is ideal for every dog. If it makes you feel better knowing, my dog is on Hills j/d and does fabulously on it, but by no means do I encourage all my clients to feed j/d or hills for that matter.
    image
    DD born 1.25.15

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