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Is there anything that can be done??

My cousin has been in contact with a specific breeder for a dog for over a year now. She met this woman at a dog show in Princeton last year. She was due to get a puppy in the fall and then it was pushed to January. Well the woman decided to not let her have the dog because my cousin was not going to have the dog neutered. She paid a deposit and has no dog. Is there somewhere where a complaint can be filed against this woman?

Re: Is there anything that can be done??

  • Does the contract say that she was obligated to get the dog neutered? If she's not agreeing to the specific contract terms then she may be out of luck, but if it's not outlined in their contract then maybe a lawyer can help get her money back.

    If the deposit was made with a credit card then maybe she can dispute it with the CC company.

    Has your cousin done any background checks/research on this breeder? She could contact the parent club for that breed, maybe, and see if this particular woman is in good standing with them. Also contact the Better Business Bureau to see if she's a legit breeder.

    Why ISN'T your cousin agreeing to neuter the dog, for that matter? I wouldn't want to give/sell a dog to someone who refuses to neuter it, either, but I'd at least return their money.

    image
  • image mbcdefg:

    Does the contract say that she was obligated to get the dog neutered? If she's not agreeing to the specific contract terms then she may be out of luck, but if it's not outlined in their contract then maybe a lawyer can help get her money back.

    If the deposit was made with a credit card then maybe she can dispute it with the CC company.

    Has your cousin done any background checks/research on this breeder? She could contact the parent club for that breed, maybe, and see if this particular woman is in good standing with them. Also contact the Better Business Bureau to see if she's a legit breeder.

    Why ISN'T your cousin agreeing to neuter the dog, for that matter? I wouldn't want to give/sell a dog to someone who refuses to neuter it, either, but I'd at least return their money.

    i was going to say pretty much what she said.

  • Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

     

     

  • There's always small claims court
  • image smw42:

    Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

     

     

    Thank you for the advice given in the 1st post.

    It is up to them to neuter the dog..not everyone does so and they (her and her husband have their own reasons) but I don't think thats a reason to not get the dog.

    getting a dog from a breeder is their decision as well.

    I was asking for advice on what was presented not to be harrassed about filing a complaint.

  • I find it 'funny' that someone who makes her living from the byproduct of unneutered dogs is using this as a sticking point. What does your cousin's contract say? If its your cousin's intent to show the dog I don't think they're supposed to be fixed - at least that's what Rob was told when he got his dog from a breeder 17+ years ago.

     If she paid with a cc she can probably protest the charge if shes not in violation of her contract with the breeder. She may also want to try whatever organization the breeder registers her dogs with (American Kennel, erc.) - depends on the breed.

    image

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  • image smw42:

    Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

     

     

    i don't understand.....is buying a puppy from a breeder illegal? I have never purchased a dog myself so please explain.
  • image AmyRob04:

    I find it 'funny' that someone who makes her living from the byproduct of unneutered dogs is using this as a sticking point. What does your cousin's contract say? If its your cousin's intent to show the dog I don't think they're supposed to be fixed - at least that's what Rob was told when he got his dog from a breeder 17+ years ago.

     If she paid with a cc she can probably protest the charge if shes not in violation of her contract with the breeder. She may also want to try whatever organization the breeder registers her dogs with (American Kennel, erc.) - depends on the breed.

    Thanks Amy. i told her to contact the breeds organization. The puppy is coming from a showdog as well. i don't understand this womans rational and I think it is BS. I think she may have sold it to someone else for more money.
  • It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.
  • that is standard in a breeder's contract. unless the dog is being sold with the intent to show, and they won't sell that quality of dog to just anyone, a breeders contract stipulates that the dog must be neutered/spayed. I don't see why they money wouldn't be refunded though.
    image
  • image ceetee:

    http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_breeder/2007/spring/contract.cfm

     

    this goes in to some explanation of the rationale 

    Thanks Cara. I just spoke to my cousin and there was no contract at all! Just phone calls over the past few months and last year.
  • I find it 'funny' that someone who makes her living from the byproduct of unneutered dogs is using this as a sticking point.

    Well, it's pretty responsible of her to do so, actually, if the puppy is going to someone as a housepet rather than a breeding/showing dog. This breeder may not want the puppy going to someone who's suddenly decided that it'd be neat to start breeding dogs (not saying OP's cousin is irresponsible or looking to be a backyard breeder, but this woman may be just wanting to protect her stock if she's not 100% sure about the cousin's intentions).

    But if she's refusing to give the money back if she's not going to fulfill the transaction, then that's just bad business, regardless of the rescue vs. breeder debate. Cousin needs to consult the contract carefully and then take action from there.

    I would also encourage the cousin to do some more research into all this before she commits to a puppy. It sounds like either the breeder she's contacting is not legit, or the breeder is legit but the cousin's intentions are not going to benefit the puppy or the breed. Either way, Cousin should do some more research to either find a better breeder or to educate herself about how to take proper care of the puppy (proper ways to breed/show it, or why it should be neutered if it's not a breeding/show dog).

    If she's not intending (and fully qualified) to breed or show the puppy, I'd REALLY encourage her to at least think about a rescue or a shelter. If she really wants a specific breed, then the breed's parent club - check the AKC and Westminster Kennel Club websites for their contact info - can point her in the direction of a breed-specific rescue. Adult dogs as well as puppies are available. Some breed-specific rescues in other states will help get the dog to her if she's really serious about adopting the dog. Purebreds can be found in regular animal shelters as well.

    What breed is she looking for? And, really, did she say why she's so against neutering it?

    image
  • image smw42:
    It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.

    I respect your opinion completely, but your response to Jessie was not helpful, did not address her question, and was just rude.   

    Jessie, I bought my dog from a breeder and it was 7 1/2 years ago, so I don't remember everything, but we didn't have a contract.  Everything was via email/phone.  I am not sure what your cousin can do to get her money back. Sorry she was taken advantage of.  That sucks :( 

     

  • image Jerseyjessie:
    image ceetee:

    http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_breeder/2007/spring/contract.cfm

     

    this goes in to some explanation of the rationale 

    Thanks Cara. I just spoke to my cousin and there was no contract at all! Just phone calls over the past few months and last year.

    Um, yeah, that sounds super-shady. This "breeder" sounds like bad news. Cousin needs to run far away from her and her puppies.

    Did your cousin even get a receipt or any kind of paperwork when she put down the deposit for the puppy? Were there any e-mail transactions?

    And she definitely needs to do some more research before she tries to get another dog, especially if she's hell-bent on a breeder puppy. There's nothing wrong with legit and responsible breeders, but there are SO many "breeders" out there who are just bogus and not acting in the dogs' best interest. It's scary how little is done to control who can raise and sell these poor animals. it's so hard to tell who is legit and who's just out to make a quick buck.

    She really needs to read up on this before she tries again. There are lots of resources out there that can help her. Definitely start with the breed's official parent club.

    image
  • Ok so I just got some info that I didn't know before hand.

    My cousin has a male dog who is almost 2, he is not spayed. They were getting this female dog and were going to have her neutered. The woman (breeder) was fine with that but also insisted that they get their other dog spayed (they did not even get him from her!).

    When they said no she flipped out on the phone and said they cannot have the dog. To me it just sounds too shady. maybe they are lucky to have to not gotten the dog from her.

  • image JenG-SLP:

    image smw42:
    It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.

    I respect your opinion completely, but your response to Jessie was not helpful, did not address her question, and was just rude.   

    Jessie, I bought my dog from a breeder and it was 7 1/2 years ago, so I don't remember everything, but we didn't have a contract.  Everything was via email/phone.  I am not sure what your cousin can do to get her money back. Sorry she was taken advantage of.  That sucks :( 

     

     

    My apologies for being rude and mbcdefg said it better than I did. Things happen for a reason and hopefully there will be a good outcome to the cousin getting a dog, and not one from a breeder.

  • image Jerseyjessie:

    Ok so I just got some info that I didn't know before hand.

    My cousin has a male dog who is almost 2, he is not spayed. They were getting this female dog and were going to have her neutered. The woman (breeder) was fine with that but also insisted that they get their other dog spayed (they did not even get him from her!).

    When they said no she flipped out on the phone and said they cannot have the dog. To me it just sounds too shady. maybe they are lucky to have to not gotten the dog from her.

    I can *kind of* see where she's coming from, if they'd be getting the female spayed only after they took her home. The breeder's concern might be that the male would impregnate the female before they got her spayed. But they could've worked around that by getting the female spayed while she was still in the breeder's care, I guess?

    I can also see why she might be passionate about neutering the male, but ultimately if the male isn't her "product" then she doesn't have a say. Unless there was a contract that specifically stipulated that the puppy must go to a home where all other animals were neutered ... but since there's no contract then the breeder can't demand that.

    Either way, she's bad news if she took the money and ran, and with no contract to boot, so like you said she may have dodged a bullet. Hopefully your cousin can get her money back.

    As for research into reputable breeders and breed-specific rescues, here's a good place for your cousin to start: http://www.akc.org/clubs/index.cfm?nav_area=clubs

     

    image
  • My cousin has a male dog who is almost 2, he is not spayed.

    I was in the vet's office years ago and a young couple was wrapping up their visit with a tiny male chihuahua, who was wearing some frilly little coat or t-shirt or something. The vet tech was finishing up their paperwork and asked if they wanted to make an appointment to have him neutered.

    The male owner - big, burly guy - got kind of mad and practically yelled, "No way, man. You're not taking away his manhood!" Um, I think that ship has sailed, guy.

    image
  • image smw42:

    Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

    insert GIGANTIC EYEROLL here.  but just in case it needs to be pointed out:

    the difference between buying a dog and buying drugs is BUYING DRUGS IS ILLEGAL.  just because YOU want people to get a dog from a shelter doesn't mean anyone else in the free world has to do it.  and if she has abided by all of the terms of the EXTREMELY LEGAL contract the breeder entered into with her then she should have a right to her deposit back.

    proof that i make babies. jack, grace, and ben, in no particular order
    image image image
  • image mbcdefg:

    My cousin has a male dog who is almost 2, he is not spayed.

    I was in the vet's office years ago and a young couple was wrapping up their visit with a tiny male chihuahua, who was wearing some frilly little coat or t-shirt or something. The vet tech was finishing up their paperwork and asked if they wanted to make an appointment to have him neutered.

    The male owner - big, burly guy - got kind of mad and practically yelled, "No way, man. You're not taking away his manhood!" Um, I think that ship has sailed, guy.

    ha ha ha ha - too funny!! 

     

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  • image laurenpetro:
    image smw42:

    Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

    insert GIGANTIC EYEROLL here.  but just in case it needs to be pointed out:

    the difference between buying a dog and buying drugs is BUYING DRUGS IS ILLEGAL.  just because YOU want people to get a dog from a shelter doesn't mean anyone else in the free world has to do it.  and if she has abided by all of the terms of the EXTREMELY LEGAL contract the breeder entered into with her then she should have a right to her deposit back.

    I will say, though, that there definitely need to be better laws about safeguarding dogs and puppies. There are WAY too many irresponsible/backyard breeders out there. There should be better licensing procedures and ways to check up on people who are breeding and selling puppies.

    And pet shops need to stop selling puppies, too.

    image
  • image laurenpetro:
    image smw42:

    Can a complaint be filed against your cousin for (A) buying a puppy from a breeder and (B) NOT wanting to spaid/neuter said puppy?

    It's like wanting a refund from a drug dealer- you shouldn't be buying the drugs in the first place!

    insert GIGANTIC EYEROLL here.  but just in case it needs to be pointed out:

    the difference between buying a dog and buying drugs is BUYING DRUGS IS ILLEGAL.  just because YOU want people to get a dog from a shelter doesn't mean anyone else in the free world has to do it.  and if she has abided by all of the terms of the EXTREMELY LEGAL contract the breeder entered into with her then she should have a right to her deposit back.

     

    It sounds like from OP's follow-up posts that there was no such contract, it was money given as a result of phone conversations. Just wanted to point that out as your "extremely legal" comment is not so fitting for this scenario of purchasing a puppy.

  • TSDTSD member

    image smw42:
    It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.

    I'm baffled at how this is any of your business. Not to mention clearly not helpful in this situation being that it's not Jessie who even bought the dog. You're cyber-chastising someone once removed. That has to be NestClassic.

     

  • image TSD:

    image smw42:
    It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.

    I'm baffled at how this is any of your business. Not to mention clearly not helpful in this situation being that it's not Jessie who even bought the dog. You're cyber-chastising someone once removed. That has to be NestClassic.

     

    if there was a Like button I would have pressed it!
  • image TSD:

     You're cyber-chastising someone once removed. That has to be NestClassic.

     

    This is an AWESOME analogy. Must remember this one! LOL! 

    image Mommy to Barbara 11/8/05, Elisabeth 5/13/07, Loukas 12/23/08 and Lazarus 09/25/12
  • Lol yes- my apologies for cyber-chastising, lol. And you're right- the OP isn't the guilty one in this situation so my apologies for going a little crazy. Have a good night ladies.

    Consider me off of my high horse.

  • image smw42:
    It isn't illegal and yes I may be one of those "crazy dog people" who strongly believe that dogs should be adopted/rescued and not purchased from breeders, but my reference was that if you're going to deal with a breeder one on one and not go through an organization then your recourse is very limited. IMO it's something you shouldn't be doing and I'm not one to sympathize with those that are taken advantage of by breeders. This could have been avoided had the cousin gone to a shelter and adopted a dog who needs a home instead of supporting a breeder.

    I agree with this 100%. Did she see the "breeders" facility and does she know for sure she is not some random BYB.

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