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Thoughts - AZ Law

If you haven't heard about it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/arizona-immigration-law-s_n_544864.html#s85983  

Thoughts on this? I feel like border patrol and dealing illegal immigrants are both important and substantial issues, but this is not the way to do it.



Zuma Zoom
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«13

Re: Thoughts - AZ Law

  • Patrick has traveled a lot to AZ for work, to a place right near the border.  He mentioned that border patrol around there did this type of check even before the law.

    I don't think it's the right way either. 

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

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  • image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    Do you have the link with the information? I copied that one from another post.

     



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    Do you have the link with the information? I copied that one from another post.

     

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

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  • image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    What kind of misinformation?  What was there before?

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • This law is not that different from the previous laws in the state, or from the immigration laws in other states, for example, PA. What it does is extend this "power" to ask for immigration documents to law enforcement beyond border patrol.

    The law does not allow an officer to walk up to anyone that looks hispanic, or asian to ask for papers. It still requires a lawful reason for the officer to ask for identification. It is unlawful for a police office to ask for your ID or to question you if you are not doing anything illegal. So this law does not allow law enforcement to walk up to someone and ask for an ID simply because of how they look, which is a lot of what the media is reporting. 

    And finally, illegal immigrants can't obtain a valid driver's license. So this law would not necessarilly require that folks carry immigration papers or they get deported or jailed. A state ID is usually proof that someone is not an alien, at least 90% of the time. Furthermore, in most states, immigrants are already required to carry permit papers if they are on any type of Visa. 

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  • image Nunu&Eddie:
    image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    Do you have the link with the information? I copied that one from another post.

     

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

    Thanks!

    I think even with what it says. It does allow for racial profiling to happen. What would cause someone to have reasonable suspicion that they're are illegal vs. someone who isn't?

    Like they actually saw them running across the border the night before?

    What do they reasonably have to go off of other than racial profiles?



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:
    image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    Do you have the link with the information? I copied that one from another post.

     

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

    Thanks!

    I think even with what it says. It does allow for racial profiling to happen. What would cause someone to have reasonable suspicion that they're are illegal vs. someone who isn't?

    Like they actually saw them running across the border the night before?

    What do they reasonably have to go off of other than racial profiles?

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

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  • image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • image Nunu&Eddie:
    image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:
    image SMorriso:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    There is a lot of misinformation out in the media about what this law actually says, and what it actually allows. In fact, the link you included above doesn't have any actual information on the law.

    I wish people would read what it is, and compare it with the law that was there prior, before spouting their opinions and joining useless FB groups about it. 

    Do you have the link with the information? I copied that one from another post.

     

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

    Thanks!

    I think even with what it says. It does allow for racial profiling to happen. What would cause someone to have reasonable suspicion that they're are illegal vs. someone who isn't?

    Like they actually saw them running across the border the night before?

    What do they reasonably have to go off of other than racial profiles?

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    The sad part is that he wouldn't even have to be white, just not look Mexican, or of Latin/Spanish decent.

    I think that in general racial profiling is horrible in America. Even though better alternatives aren't being made/suggested, it doesn't make the profiling justified.

     



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image SMorriso:

    I think even with what it says. It does allow for racial profiling to happen. What would cause someone to have reasonable suspicion that they're are illegal vs. someone who isn't?

    Like they actually saw them running across the border the night before?

    What do they reasonably have to go off of other than racial profiles?

    I'm with Nuelsi.   

    Reasonable suspicion is what polic have to have in order to search anyone on any street at any time.  Basically it is no more, no less than it was before.   ie: if you're driving a semi with a tail light out, the police can have the authority to ask you for your license, insurance, registration, etc.  Now, in AZ, if they do this and have reason to believe the cargo with which you are crossing the border is human, they can additionally search the cargo compartment of the vehicle.

    This isn't the first or the last law that will impact racial profiling.  In fact, it is already a crime to be in this country without appropriate papers, so it isn't even a novel criminalization- hence the term "illegal immigrant".  AND, it doesn't affect what the people along the border are doing anyway, because they pull you over for any little offense, no matter what you look like, because you could be human smuggling.  

    Instead, it gives the states the authority to put people who violate immigration laws in jails until deportation instead of handing them over to INS who works on a very strict clock of deport or release- the country can't send every person back within a day of being picked up by INS, and frequently their investigations take longer than they can hold the person for, and they're released, never to be seen again.  

    I think it is perfectly okay.  If you're in this country illegally, you deserve to be treated as if you're committing a crime.  Plenty of people come here each year legally, and yes, there is back log for green cards and wait times, etc., but the bottom line is for most good things in life you have to wait and do things through the appropriate channels or face the consequences.   I don't see how this is any different.

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image heyxu:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    Do you think that current laws don't basically allow racial profiling?

    I guarantee you if you were an African American teenager/ in your early 20s driving around in certain neighborhoods in DC on any given night you'd be pulled over.  Doesn't matter for what, it would happen.  Police in the region where you live right now do it.  

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image maryandkirk0909:
    image heyxu:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    Do you think that current laws don't basically allow racial profiling?

    I guarantee you if you were an African American teenager/ in your early 20s driving around in certain neighborhoods in DC on any given night you'd be pulled over.  Doesn't matter for what, it would happen.  Police in the region where you live right now do it.  

    I don't know about current laws.  It doesn't surprise me that some allow it.  And yes, I know racial profiling happens.  I'm not sure why you thought I didn't?

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • image maryandkirk0909:
    image heyxu:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    Do you think that current laws don't basically allow racial profiling?

    I guarantee you if you were an African American teenager/ in your early 20s driving around in certain neighborhoods in DC on any given night you'd be pulled over.  Doesn't matter for what, it would happen.  Police in the region where you live right now do it.  

    I think that is part of the problem. It is rampant throughout the country. If 75% of the country is white, yet minorities are the majority in prisons in the country. Something is off. Is it just because we're easily profiled? Or because the assumption that a minority must be mixed up into something bad just because of their race?

     



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image heyxu:
    image maryandkirk0909:
    image heyxu:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    Do you think that current laws don't basically allow racial profiling?

    I guarantee you if you were an African American teenager/ in your early 20s driving around in certain neighborhoods in DC on any given night you'd be pulled over.  Doesn't matter for what, it would happen.  Police in the region where you live right now do it.  

    I don't know about current laws.  It doesn't surprise me that some allow it.  And yes, I know racial profiling happens.  I'm not sure why you thought I didn't?

    I didn't mean to say that you didn't know it happens, I just didn't know if you knew the prevalence with which it already occurs.  

    Basically, my point is that there is no way with any law to avoid it, and particularly with criminal statutes there is always a lot of backlash.   

    Do I like that it occurs?  Of course not.  But am I a realist who knows the only way to avoid being penalized for this is to be doing things the way you're supposed to be (ie: in this country with appropriate paperwork or driving with a license and insurance)? Yes.  That's why we teach the kids who we work with "street law"... things to make them better prepared for what they could face out in the world, and where the line is as far as what the police can do.

    Essentially, Arizona is just going to have to teach its immigrant populations of every race what the law says, how far the police can take the search, and how to make sure you have what you need to be covered if you are ever accused of violating it.  Knowledge is the only way to really ensure that constitutional rights aren't being infringed upon.  

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image SMorriso:
    image maryandkirk0909:
    image heyxu:
    image Nunu&Eddie:

    But to me, racial profiling by law enforcement has always existed. And not just in Arizona. We had a member of our Church get deported because he was working on the side of a street, a cop saw him, and asked for papers. Had he been white, the cop probably would have never stopped. He is Mexican.

    And the problem I have with the uproar, is that no one is suggesting any better wording or alternative that addresses the problem of illegal immigration without leaving the doors open for racial profiling.

    I get that, and it's true.  But this law pretty much makes it legal to racially profile.

    While it doesn't bring much to the conversation, I don't see a problem criticizing a law when you can't come up with an alternative.

    Do you think that current laws don't basically allow racial profiling?

    I guarantee you if you were an African American teenager/ in your early 20s driving around in certain neighborhoods in DC on any given night you'd be pulled over.  Doesn't matter for what, it would happen.  Police in the region where you live right now do it.  

    I think that is part of the problem. It is rampant throughout the country. If 75% of the country is white, yet minorities are the majority in prisons in the country. Something is off. Is it just because we're easily profiled? Or because the assumption that a minority must be mixed up into something bad just because of their race?

     

    I think it depends on the community.  Disproportionate minority contact has been studied a lot, and there is no clear cause.

    In DC, 90% of the population is AA.  So, the fact that I work almost exclusively with that population isn't surprising.  Yes, we see the occasional Hispanic or white kid, but that is a demographical issue. Additionally, white people who do live in DC tend to be older (meaning 18+) professionals who have more money.  That means they're probably not using the Public Defender in juvenile court.   

    When I worked in St. Louis, my cases in the city were primarily AA, but I had a few white clients.  I had county cases where I had all white clients.  I think that has to do with demographics too- St. Louis city is 75% AA.  St. Louis county is 90% white.  

    Does that mean there is not disproportionate contact?  Of course not.  But it does mean that there are explanations other than race (ie: age, education, family background, urban areas, crime rates). 

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image maryandkirk0909:

    I think it depends on the community.  Disproportionate minority contact has been studied a lot, and there is no clear cause.

    In DC, 90% of the population is AA.  So, the fact that I work almost exclusively with that population isn't surprising.  Yes, we see the occasional Hispanic or white kid, but that is a demographical issue. Additionally, white people who do live in DC tend to be older (meaning 18+) professionals who have more money.  That means they're probably not using the Public Defender in juvenile court.   

    When I worked in St. Louis, my cases in the city were primarily AA, but I had a few white clients.  I had county cases where I had all white clients.  I think that has to do with demographics too- St. Louis city is 75% AA.  St. Louis county is 90% white.  

    Does that mean there is not disproportionate contact?  Of course not.  But it does mean that there are explanations other than race (ie: age, education, family background, urban areas, crime rates). 

    A lot of that is deeply rooted in the country's racial views and racism we've had since we've been on this continent. Not trying to get all 'power to the people' on this thread. I just think that in general, that race is, and the effects of racism through the centuries are still rearing it's ugly head. AZ just enforces further racial profiling in a way that can't be very effective to what this country was supposedly founded on. Liberty and justice for all, etc. etc.

    If I were to be in that area, I could very well be mistaken for Mexican, and if I got stopped, I'd be pretty damn mad.

    I feel like people tend to overlook things like this because, 'that's just the way things are'. Also because they can't empathize, or just don't empathize with the victims in these situations.

     



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image SMorriso:

    If I were to be in that area, I could very well be mistaken for Mexican, and if I got stopped, I'd be pretty damn mad.

    I feel like people tend to overlook things like this because, 'that's just the way things are'. Also because they can't empathize, or just don't empathize with the victims in these situations. 

    I have empathy for people who are wrongly stopped.  I think it is frustrating.  At the same time, if you were stopped, they would have to have a legitimate reason, as Nuelsi said, you'd show them your driver's license. That is the end of it for you if you're a citizen or a legal immigrant.  It isn't any different than being pulled over in MN, MO, or DC.

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image maryandkirk0909:
    image SMorriso:

    If I were to be in that area, I could very well be mistaken for Mexican, and if I got stopped, I'd be pretty damn mad.

    I feel like people tend to overlook things like this because, 'that's just the way things are'. Also because they can't empathize, or just don't empathize with the victims in these situations. 

    I have empathy for people who are wrongly stopped.  I think it is frustrating.  At the same time, if you were stopped, they would have to have a legitimate reason, as Nuelsi said, you'd show them your driver's license. That is the end of it for you if you're a citizen or a legal immigrant.  It isn't any different than being pulled over in MN, MO, or DC.

    So in the case of Arizona, what would be a legitimate reason to reasonably suspect that someone was an illegal immigrant?  I think that's what the issue is.  It's not clearly defined and leaves it to the discretion of the police.  I do think people should carry around their identification, a driver's license should suffice, and by federal law you are supposed to carry around your green card, but it sucks to be targeted for looking like an immigrant aka Hispanic.

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • image heyxu:
    image maryandkirk0909:
    image SMorriso:

    If I were to be in that area, I could very well be mistaken for Mexican, and if I got stopped, I'd be pretty damn mad.

    I feel like people tend to overlook things like this because, 'that's just the way things are'. Also because they can't empathize, or just don't empathize with the victims in these situations. 

    I have empathy for people who are wrongly stopped.  I think it is frustrating.  At the same time, if you were stopped, they would have to have a legitimate reason, as Nuelsi said, you'd show them your driver's license. That is the end of it for you if you're a citizen or a legal immigrant.  It isn't any different than being pulled over in MN, MO, or DC.

    So in the case of Arizona, what would be a legitimate reason to reasonably suspect that someone was an illegal immigrant?  I think that's what the issue is. 

    I agree, but again, "reasonable suspicion" is the same standard for any criminal statute, so it isn't like they're lessening the burden on the police for this one to make racial profiling easier/ more prevalent. 

    White Knot
    Stand up for something you believe in. White Knot
  • image maryandkirk0909:
    image SMorriso:

    If I were to be in that area, I could very well be mistaken for Mexican, and if I got stopped, I'd be pretty damn mad.

    I feel like people tend to overlook things like this because, 'that's just the way things are'. Also because they can't empathize, or just don't empathize with the victims in these situations. 

    I have empathy for people who are wrongly stopped.  I think it is frustrating.  At the same time, if you were stopped, they would have to have a legitimate reason, as Nuelsi said, you'd show them your driver's license. That is the end of it for you if you're a citizen or a legal immigrant.  It isn't any different than being pulled over in MN, MO, or DC.

    The legitimate reason would have to be no more than race. Which is wrong. It just perpetuates the class system based on race, which is wrong too. Mexican Ameriacans in Arizona shouldn't feel less than the blond haired blue eyed person next to them, yet there it is, underlying yet very real.

    Not to mention the paranoia and defensiveness against the American legal system, and their outstanding members of the police force.

     

     

     



    Zuma Zoom
    image
  • image maryandkirk0909:

    I agree, but again, "reasonable suspicion" is the same standard for any criminal statute, so it isn't like they're lessening the burden on the police for this one to make racial profiling easier/ more prevalent. 

    But, how can reasonable suspicion in this case be anything but at least partially based on race?  That would make racial profiling more prevalent.  It's different than weaving back and forth in your lane and getting pulled over on suspicion of drunk driving and other instances, because race is a major part of what makes someone seem like an illegal immigrant.

    [] <a href="http://comfypajamas.wordpress.com">Blog</a> [] EDD: 05.19.2012


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  • http://tinyurl.com/37ykx6r

    I'm sorry, but everything time this subject comes up, this pops into my head...

  • image JillianAshley6:

    However-there are some great privileges that come with being a citizen of this country-sometimes there are prices you have to pay to get priveleges-and I don't think being forced to show documentation of citizenship occasionally is such a big deal.

    Yes 

    image
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  • image JillianAshley6:

    I KNOW I'm going to get flamed for saying this....I could just make it into a PS, but WTH....

    I have extremely dark, almost black hair. I have dark, almost black eyes-my dad is Italian, and I have his coloring. I have started tanning (I know its bad for you, but I have a skin condition that tanning helps clear up, so I do it) so my skin is darkening pretty quickly. I could probably pass for Hispanic right now.

    I wouldn't be offended at all if someone asked to see documentation/id that I was here legally. Its a problem-especially where I live. I carry massive uninsured motorist coverage on my insurance because it is such a problem in my area.

    I realize that I'm not part of the minority that is being targeted, so my opinion doesn't really count for much. However-someone earlier mentioned the concern that those who shouldn't be asked would be, and that they might get offended. So thats my 2cents.

    However-there are some great priveleges that come with being a citizen of this country-sometimes there are prices you have to pay to get priveleges-and I don't think being forced to show documentation of citizenship occasionally is such a big deal.

    ETA: I'm wincing as I post this b/c I'm afraid to see the fallout .....

    The two points you made is what frustrates me about racism. If it doesn't affect someone specifically, it seems much easier to brush off.  I've said this before, to me, blatant disregard of someone else with racist behavior is just as bad as the behavior itself. I could just be sensitive, but it just seems like... Well the racism doesn't apply to me, so it doesn't matter to me.

    It isn't really a problem that people are trying to defend our borders. More that this is going to bring about a system of policing that doesn't represent equality among the second most dominant race in America.

    When people who know they're not being targeted for being a citizen get asked, it doesn't matter as much. To me, it would. But in your case you wouldn't.

    If you had someone targeting you because you were Italian, i.e. West Side Story, Godfather, etc. It would be freakin annoying. If you stepped out of an Italian restaurant, you could be asked for your papers. Arrested until someone went to your home, fetched your citizenship papers, and you take public transportation because you can't drive, and don't have an ID. When they would, they would drag in your cousin who fetched your papers to start the cycle again.

    If you left an Italian market in a predomitately Italian neighborhood and got carded/asked for papers... The sh!t would get old. You'd feel the pangs of racism beyond an earnest attempt to defend America against illegal activity.

    If you were targeted because people thought you were below them, as a Mexican, or a Mexican American, it sheds a different light on the situation.

    To me, the whole thing is like the WWII era. I'm not Jewish, but if I were stopped, it would just be convenient that I could show them I wasn't Jewish. IMO stopping of people would still be wrong. I would still feel horrible that innocent actual citizens are being persecuted for being Mexican American, at the risk of being detained for up to 6 months.



    Zuma Zoom
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  • image SMorriso:

    To me, the whole thing is like the WWII era. I'm not Jewish, but if I were stopped, it would just be convenient that I could show them I wasn't Jewish. IMO stopping of people would still be wrong. I would still feel horrible that innocent actual citizens are being persecuted for being Mexican American, at the risk of being detained for up to 6 months.

    Except the jewish people did nothing illegal, and were sent to concentration camps, tortured and killed. Just for their race.

    While the illegal immigrants ARE doing something illegal just by being in this country. And are simply being arrested and deported. 

    This is nothing like that, and I actually think it is an insult to Holocaust survivors to sensationalize it by comparing it.

    And, I am hispanic, and would actually be glad if someone questioned me. And, again, not having ANY type of state ID is irresponsible, even if you don't drive. How do you buy alcohol? Or cigarettes? Or porn? Or what if someone needs to see your ID for a credit card?

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  • image Nunu&Eddie:
    image SMorriso:

    To me, the whole thing is like the WWII era. I'm not Jewish, but if I were stopped, it would just be convenient that I could show them I wasn't Jewish. IMO stopping of people would still be wrong. I would still feel horrible that innocent actual citizens are being persecuted for being Mexican American, at the risk of being detained for up to 6 months.

    Except the jewish people did nothing illegal, and were sent to concentration camps, tortured and killed. Just for their race.

    While the illegal immigrants ARE doing something illegal just by being in this country. And are simply being arrested and deported. 

    This is nothing like that, and I actually think it is an insult to Holocaust survivors to sensationalize it by comparing it.

    And, I am hispanic, and would actually be glad if someone questioned me. And, again, not having ANY type of state ID is irresponsible, even if you don't drive. How do you buy alcohol? Or cigarettes? Or porn? Or what if someone needs to see your ID for a credit card?

    It is convenient that Puerto Ricans are considered American. It is convenient that I'm Amercian. It isn't quite the same fight to be in a better place. Taking their classes and spending their time and money to become citizens and get arrested in the process. I know many Nigerians that have to go through the very long and hard process. They have to study for tests that most Americans can't pass.

    I also don't think the comparison is wrong. The Mexican American citizens have not done anything wrong. They're still getting persecuted. Granted there are no death camps now, but the Holocaust started somewhere. Racism doesn't need to be as grandiose as the Holocaust to still be wrong.



    Zuma Zoom
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  • image SMorriso:

    I also don't think the comparison is wrong. The Mexican American citizens have not done anything wrong. They're still getting persecuted. Granted there are no death camps now, but the Holocaust started somewhere. Racism doesn't need to be as grandiose as the Holocaust to still be wrong.

    Yeah.  His name was Hitler.

  • image MrsMcC091909:

    image SMorriso:

    I also don't think the comparison is wrong. The Mexican American citizens have not done anything wrong. They're still getting persecuted. Granted there are no death camps now, but the Holocaust started somewhere. Racism doesn't need to be as grandiose as the Holocaust to still be wrong.

    Yeah.  His name was Hitler.

    Right, and I'm not one to believe that there aren't cops down there with the same power trip he had.

     



    Zuma Zoom
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  • image SMorriso:
    image MrsMcC091909:

    image SMorriso:

    I also don't think the comparison is wrong. The Mexican American citizens have not done anything wrong. They're still getting persecuted. Granted there are no death camps now, but the Holocaust started somewhere. Racism doesn't need to be as grandiose as the Holocaust to still be wrong.

    Yeah.  His name was Hitler.

    Right, and I'm not one to believe that there aren't cops down there with the same power trip he had.

    Confused

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