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Ummm...happy holidays? Whatever happened to that?

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Re: Ummm...happy holidays? Whatever happened to that?

  • I don't argue that politics were involved in his death (and his life, for that matter).  I took issue with the "but it makes a nice story" part, which seems to scoff at a central belief of the Christian faith -- that Jesus died for the sins of man and that we can find salvation through him.  I understand you don't believe that and that there are different ways to view his life and significance, but your phrasing seemed as harsh as M_M's to me.

    I also know there are different ways to interpret his teachings, but I think a valid interpretation is that he claimed to be God incarnate (see, e.g., John 8:58.). If he was a radical, which he was, is it that much of a stretch to think that he had beliefs that didn't conform to accepted Jewish theology? That is how religions are born and develop, right?


     
  • image IrishBrideND:

    Would any of you wish others "Happy Birthday" on YOUR birthday? I assume not. To me, saying "merry christmas" to those you know don't celebrate is the same thing. Why do it?

    Yes, I think getting offended is a bit much, but IMO is very rude to do it to someone on purpose....and to get your panties in a bunch because people would prefer happy holidays. 

     

    I don't think anyone is saying "Merry Christmas" with the intentions of hurting anyone. It is just natural for the majority of people. It is very silly to think people are going out of their way to offend you by wishing you a "merry Christmas"

  • image Tambcat:

    I don't argue that politics were involved in his death (and his life, for that matter).  I took issue with the "but it makes a nice story" part, which seems to scoff at a central belief of the Christian faith -- that Jesus died for the sins of man and that we can find salvation through him.  I understand you don't believe that and that there are different ways to view his life and significance, but your phrasing seemed as harsh as M_M's to me.

    I also know there are different ways to interpret his teachings, but I think a valid interpretation is that he claimed to be God incarnate (see, e.g., John 8:58.). If he was a radical, which he was, is it that much of a stretch to think that he had beliefs that didn't conform to accepted Jewish theology? That is how religions are born and develop, right?


     

    FWIW (and maybe I misunderstood AJL), I think the "nice story" part was in reference to people claiming that Jesus' death was a religious calculation on the part of Jewish people instead of a political decision, not that the Christian belief that Jesus died for their sins was a "nice story."  jmo...

  • image hrparker:
    image Tambcat:

    I don't argue that politics were involved in his death (and his life, for that matter).  I took issue with the "but it makes a nice story" part, which seems to scoff at a central belief of the Christian faith -- that Jesus died for the sins of man and that we can find salvation through him.  I understand you don't believe that and that there are different ways to view his life and significance, but your phrasing seemed as harsh as M_M's to me.

    I also know there are different ways to interpret his teachings, but I think a valid interpretation is that he claimed to be God incarnate (see, e.g., John 8:58.). If he was a radical, which he was, is it that much of a stretch to think that he had beliefs that didn't conform to accepted Jewish theology? That is how religions are born and develop, right?


     

    FWIW (and maybe I misunderstood AJL), I think the "nice story" part was in reference to people claiming that Jesus' death was a religious calculation on the part of Jewish people instead of a political decision, not that the Christian belief that Jesus died for their sins was a "nice story."  jmo...

    hrparker, you hit the nail on the head.  That's exactly what I meant.

  • image hrparker:
    image Tambcat:

    I don't argue that politics were involved in his death (and his life, for that matter).  I took issue with the "but it makes a nice story" part, which seems to scoff at a central belief of the Christian faith -- that Jesus died for the sins of man and that we can find salvation through him.  I understand you don't believe that and that there are different ways to view his life and significance, but your phrasing seemed as harsh as M_M's to me.

    I also know there are different ways to interpret his teachings, but I think a valid interpretation is that he claimed to be God incarnate (see, e.g., John 8:58.). If he was a radical, which he was, is it that much of a stretch to think that he had beliefs that didn't conform to accepted Jewish theology? That is how religions are born and develop, right?


     

    FWIW (and maybe I misunderstood AJL), I think the "nice story" part was in reference to people claiming that Jesus' death was a religious calculation on the part of Jewish people instead of a political decision, not that the Christian belief that Jesus died for their sins was a "nice story."  jmo...

    But was M_M claiming it was a calculated move on the part of the Jews? I thought she was just saying that their rejection of him as the Messiah is how Jesus' was able to fulfill his purpose here on Earth, i.e., dying for man's sins.  I do agree that that belief has been used to rain down hell upon the Jewish people, and imo, people who use it for that purpose are not truly walking with Jesus.

    Maybe you're right about what AJL meant, but if that is the case, I think she misunderstood M_M. 

     

    eta:  I see that I did misinterpret your post. Sorry for going off. lol

  • image Ms_Matched:

    I had to research different cultures and beliefs, such as Islam, in high school Bible class. We referred to such beliefs as religious cults. 

    We will agree to disagree. :)

    Hmm.  Considering your scope of knowledge comes from HS Bible class, I feel so much better. 

  • image Ms_Matched:

    I had to research different cultures and beliefs, such as Islam, in high school Bible class. We referred to such beliefs as religious cults. 

    We will agree to disagree. :)

    I didn't see this earlier. Well in that case, I take back everything I posted. No arguing with a high school Bible class. Confused


  • I think that people get way too sensitive about this.  The whole season is a holiday season starting with Thanksgiving and ending with New Years.  They are, in fact, holidays.  I celebrate Christmas.  If someone wishes me 'happy holidays', I say, "Thank you!  You too."  The same reply goes for people who say 'Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year etc..'   I certainly don't get offended if people do not realize I am a Christian and don't say Merry Christmas.  I'm usually just happy to have someone express a friendly sentiment to me rather than plowing me over on the sidewalk in their rush to get to the mall!!
  • My husband works in retail and they really are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  He gets yelled at if he says " Happy Holidays" and gets yelled at if he says " Merry Christmas."  Some people say nothing and some just say " Merry Christmas" because that causes less drama.
  • image EastCoastBride:

    Coming to this late. 

    Here is my take.

    As individuals, people should be able to say a greeting based on THEIR beliefs.  And if that means "Merry Christmas", then that's what it means.  Why shouldn'[t people be able to say that when that is what they believe?  You don't believe it?  Then don't say it, and/or say "Happy Hanukkah". 

    But it's ridiculous to be offended by people expressing greetings based on their belief system. There HAS to be respect in both directions here.

    However, when it comes to work parties.... I do fully believe it should be a HOLIDAY party. Open and welcoming of all relgions and beliefs. 

    My DH is Jewish (I am not) and he could care less about "Merry Christmas" greetings, but I do think he gets a little put off by "Christmas parties".  He jokes about it- and it's nothing he would refuse to go to.  But I do feel that he appreciates it a LOT when something is called a "holiday" party.

    Agreed. This is my story as well. Jewish husband and I'm a Christian. 

    When it's a company party in the month of December or any month it should be called something ALL ENCOMPASSING to include every single person that works there.

    I hope that you will bring this up to management.

    As far as what I say to people, I'm not ignorant that there are other holidays celebrated in December but I prefer to say Merry Christmas because it's what I celebrate and I am wishing well to others. If I know someone is of another faith for a fate then I will say Happy Holidays but I enjoy saying Merry Christmas and I do have the right to say it. 

    Oh and Jesus was Jewish. He followed the Jewish rules and religion of his time which are completely and utterly opposite of what the Christians have developed and practice in his name.

    Always an interesting reminder.

    Took 2 years & 8 months to make our baby! Lilypie First Birthday tickers
  • Opposite? Are you sure you aren't exaggerating a leeeetle bit?  Many Christian principles are based on Jesus' own teachings. I would be the first to admit that religious dogma and tradition has gone far beyond what Jesus taught and that the focus of many Christians is often in the wrong place, but I think it's a stretch to say that Christianity, on the whole, is "completely and utterly" opposite from the religion Jesus practiced, especially during the time he spent teaching. I wouldn't even say that Christianity and Judaism are opposites. It's odd to me that anyone would. And if the Gospels are any indication of what Jesus actually taught, it seems like he downplayed the importance of following the letter of the Jewish law and preached more to the spirit of it.
  • Whether or not the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation initially is a totally moot point.  What it stands for now is religious freedom, of all kinds, whether you think it's a "cult" or not.  (The cult statement I won't even get into, because frankly, as a Christian, *I* find that so horribly offensive I can't even form coherent thought on the subject.)

    I think the OP is overreacting a little, although I can imagine that celebrating a holiday that is consistently seen as an afterthought during December could be terribly annoying.

    What I find really irritating are the subsequent posts getting defensive and self-righteous about Christmas.  "Well, JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON" makes me laugh. 

    If you want to wish someone well, wish them well, however you want to say it.  But if you're saying it to make a point, you sort of negate the "well-wishing" part of the statement.

    In short, I don't see why the OP is SO offended by "Merry Christmas"; but I also don't see why Christians would be offended by someone's offense, if that makes any sense.  Saying "TSK!  WHY ARE YOU OFFENDED?  YOU SHOULDN'T BE OFFENDED" serves no purpose.  It's not going to lessen what the OP feels is a slight; and it certainly doesn't strike  me as terribly Christian behavior.

     

    image
    Updated September 2012. Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • image Ms_Matched:

    I tried to be delicate in my wording, thus the reason I did not say "Your god is false or you serve a false god". I said "what I (as a Christian) believe to be false".

    I had to research different cultures and beliefs, such as Islam, in high school Bible class. We referred to such beliefs as religious cults. 

    We will agree to disagree. :)

     

    I hope you realize that comments like these are the reason so many people have issues with Christians.

     

     

    That said, I agree that work parties should be all inclusive. And I generally say "Happy Holidays" for most of the season. The week leading up to Christmas, and Christmas itself, I do say "Merry Christmas" unless I know for a fact the person does not celebrate it. I agree that it is good to be a little PC about things like this, but I am not going to feel guilty or worry about someone getting mad because I wished them a Merry Christmas on Christmas. Just as I wouldn't be offended if they responded with "Happy Holidays" or "Happy/Merry" whatever they do.

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