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Friend's RE trouble: stay out of it, or not?

I introduced two friends of mine to each other, and now they're almost engaged.  Almost meaning that I happen to know he's in the process of designing/purchasing the ring, and that it'll be a complete (but *very* welcome surprise.)  She and I met in College; he's my neighbor.  She moved down to Cincinnati after graduating to be with him, and then found a dream job in Salt Lake City.  She left for Salt Lake City in August, and he's planning on moving out there in November.  She is extremely extroverted, and has significant difficulties with planning and thinking through consequences.  She has gotten caught up in the moment enough that she's ended up cheating on guys before.  He actually knows this since he knew she was still dating her ex when they started going out together.

Believe it or not, they have a fabulous relationship.  Their personalities complement each other.  They have a great way of handling almost all the problems that come up in their relationship.  In general, I think that both people are happier and better for being in the relationship.

So, he asked me this morning if she'd ever had any problems with drugs before.  To my knowledge she has never done illegal drugs at any point.  I've known her for the past six years throughout college and such, and I'm confident that it's not her personality to do that sort of thing.  So, I ask why.  It turns out that her new friends in Salt Lake City are big into Ecstasy, and she's become very curious about it.  He's worried because when he told her that drug use of any kind was a dealbreaker for him, she told him he was being close minded (although agreed not to try the X.) His trust is wavering, but still there.

I, on the other hand, am *very* concerned.  Having known her for as long as I have, and knowing who she is and seeing her in similar situations, I would bet 10-1 odds that if she's in a situation where she thinks he's never going to find out about the X, and it's there and free, she's going to try it.  And then, because /I/ know what X's effects are going to be, I give it another 90% chance that she'll end up cheating on him.  And THEN, because she's an idiot, she's going to write about it in her journal. All of these are obviously problematic to the relationship to the point where I don't know if I could support the marriage without both parties being aware of what they're facing.

I also know that this situation is largely because of the long distance relationship.  She's frustrated that he hasn't moved yet, and she's terrified he's going to change his mind about moving, and she thinks that it's going to be like pulling teeth to get him to propose, and she's lonely.  If he were there, she'd scale back how much she hangs out with these people (she's the sort that does when she's in a relationship), and there wouldn't be any real danger.  

I can't decide if I ought to have a conversation with her about it.  On one hand, I want to stay out of it because these are both my friends and I don't want to be in a position where I have to keep information from one about the other - especially if the other is moving a thousand miles away from his family to marry her, and especially when it's hard enough keeping the planned proposal a secret.  On the other hand, I think she needs to know that I knew someone who died while taking X; that there are other physical dangers; and that there are emotional dangers to the X too.  I think that if she knew that he was planning to propose, it would remove a lot of frustration on her part.  I also think that I could have this conversation with her without affecting my relationship with her in any way.  So, what do you think?  Keep my nose out of it or talk to her about this? 

Re: Friend's RE trouble: stay out of it, or not?

  • If you want to talk to her about the drug use, then I think that would be fine.  She is your friend and she is considering doing something  that can potentially be very damaging to her.  Tell her what your concerns are and share your story about your friend who died.  Approach it as a friend who cares about her well being.

    DO NOT mention that he is thinking about proposing.  That is between her and her boyfriend and you absolutely need to mind your own business on that topic.  At this point he may or may not propose, and frankly I think until this situation has played out I would suggest he not do it. 

  • You are WAY too involved in their relationship. I'm sure that's a natural consequence of introducing two friends to each other, but you need to stay out of the "them" side of things. Talk to her about your concerns for what they are, but not about the fact that she could be jeopardizing her relationship. That's for him to convey to her directly if he has any sense at all.

    It just sounds as if you have this feeling like because you introduced them, because you are "responsible" for initiating the relationship, you must somehow continue to be responsible for its successful ongoing progression. That is extremely misguided.

  • Talk to her from a friend that is concerned about their friend standpoint... Do NOT under any circumstances tell her about the planned engagement ring. That's not your place. Tell her - that given her history you are concerned for her that her actions could cost her a man that loves her deeply and is completely committed to her. Tell her you don't want to know if she does anything stupid because you will be forced to tell other friend if you are in possession of such info. Put the consequences out there for her as well as your opinion and experience of losing a friend... but do not tell her about the ring.
  • Well, ditto the others first. 

    Second, I feel you make way too many excuses for her and absolve her of any real responsibility. 

    has significant difficulties with planning and thinking through consequences

    Really?  She can't figure out what the consequences will be if she cheats? Or if she does drugs?   So, oh gosh darnit, look, there she went and cheated again!  Because that's just "how" she is!

    I think that if she knew that he was planning to propose, it would remove a lot of frustration on her part. 

    She needs to know she's going to be getting married in order to continue being the trustworthy partner she should be anyhow? 

    This makes no sense.  If she's committed to him, then she should be COMMITTED to him.  Doesn't matter if she has a ring or not.

    I really do wonder how much she's  ever really been held responsible for her decisions in life because the picture you're painting of her- it doesn't seem like much and therefore, she just does what she wants to do and just don't care about how it impacts other people.

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    ~Benjamin Franklin

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  • What ECB said, in spades. She knows perfectly well the consequences of taking drugs, and of cheating; and if she has to have some incentive to remain clean and faithful aside from it's the right thing to do, her soon to be fiance is better off without her.

    You need to stay the hell out of this. She's responsible for her own behavior and choices; and if she doesn't know how to make decent ones now, well, it's probably for the best that her STBfi finds someone else who does.

     

     

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  • I consider it odd that he is this close to proposing and she is not aware of it.  The proposal may be a 'surprise' moment but why is she so unaware of his level of commitment and planning a life with her?  So unaware that she is partying and going out with people she wouldn't if she DID know?

    If they can't manage this long-distance strain on their relationship without you explaining how the other feels, I don't see it being that solid.

    This is a grown woman, right?  With a college degree and a committed relationship?  I think you need to let her live her life and not think you can talk her out of partying, doing drugs, cheating on her BF, writing about it in her journal and breaking your neighbor's heart.

    Given the circumstances I would get her on the phone and tell her how much this guy loves her and she needs to do a better job in finding out how committed he REALLY is.  At this point, she has to be more sure of this than you, right?

    And PS:  I've know plenty of guys who buy rings and don't propose.  And plenty of people (male and female) who sabotage good relationships.  It happens. You can't stop it all.

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  • I wouldn't say a word. FIrst, does she know that you and her bf talk this much? That could come as a shock, and most people don't like being talked about behind their back, especially when it's their boyfriend and best friend! Also, she's grown, and if she wants to try drugs, that's her deal. We've all had the same education and exposure to the risks of recreational drugs. And whether or not you had D.A.R.E in school, you do have a tv and internet which both give you access to all sorts of info as to why drugs are bad. If she tries it, it's her deal. And if he loves this girl enough to marry her, then he'd be dumb to have a "deal breaker", but not confront her himself about his fear.

    I don't think you're in thier relationship too much. I've been friends with ppl who were dating and got to hear EVERY detail whether I wanted to or not! lol. You just have to realize that people can talk to you all they want, they can even solicite advise, but when it comes to you telling them what to do, God already gave them two parents, they don't need any more.

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  • In answer to a few comments:  regarding her not knowing the level of commitment: she knows.  They've had numerous discussions about the topic, and they agree that they're ready to begin their lives together.  The issue is that he seems to be very slow to making decisions.  They talked about moving in together for three months before they did it, and he waited until her lease was about a week from being up before agreeing to let her move in with him.  They talked about moving to Salt Lake City for another two-three months - and he finally, very grudgingly decided to move out there.  I have a feeling that she expects another several months of conversation and working out his fears/concerns before he decides to marry her.  This is why the proposal is going to be such a huge surprise.

     Regarding my making excuses - I don't feel that they are excuses.  I don't condone all of her behaviors, but as my friend and NOT my significant other, I'm willing to take the bad with the good.  I'm simply trying to paint a picture, and state that because of who she is and her past behaviors, I'm very concerned about how this situation will work out.  However, I'll be the first to say that I think this trait of hers is an extremely negative and destructive personality trait, and is the single biggest source of conflict in her life. 

    As for my feeling responsible for the relationship - I think that's a brilliant observation, and it's definitely made me think that it's time to take a huge step back.  I wasn't going to tell her about the ring, but if it came up, I was pondering whether it would be a bad idea to simply say that I think he's making great strides towards being ready to fully commit to her.  (We've had discussions in the past as to whether he was ever going to be able to make the decision for himself to actually start taking the steps towards getting married, and up until recently I've been rather negative in my opinions on the subject.)

    Also, let me note that it's in my personality to be hugely entertained by this sort of thing.  I know it's extremely obnoxious, but I LOVE giving advice, and I love drama, and I love telling people what to do.  Thus why it's so damned hard to keep my mouth shut - the first inclination is to pick up the phone and start talking.

  • Number one thing is to stop making excuses for her.  Long distance relationship or not.  It does not give her the right to act like she is acting.  DH and I were in a long distance relationship for 1.5 years.  We NEVER acted like this because we were lonely.  If she cheats it is not because she's lonely.  It is because she's a whore.
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  • image lawright:

    Also, let me note that it's in my personality to be hugely entertained by this sort of thing.  I know it's extremely obnoxious, but I LOVE giving advice, and I love drama, and I love telling people what to do.  Thus why it's so damned hard to keep my mouth shut - the first inclination is to pick up the phone and start talking.

    Hmm

    Stay out of it.

     

     

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  • I would talk to her about the drug use. I would be heartbroken if my best friend put herself in that situation, and would definately try to talk to her. She could be putting herself in a lot of danger.

     But as far as their relationship is concerned, that's not your place.

  • I appreciate you thinking and respond to everyone's posts/thoughts.  But you are back tracking a bit.  Having several 'discusions' and 'knowing' are very different things.  These are YOUR words:

    image lawright:

    I also know that this situation is largely because of the long distance relationship.  She's frustrated that he hasn't moved yet, and she's terrified he's going to change his mind about moving, and she thinks that it's going to be like pulling teeth to get him to propose, and she's lonely.  If he were there, she'd scale back how much she hangs out with these people (she's the sort that does when she's in a relationship), and there wouldn't be any real danger.  

     

    Now you are saying that she "knows" about his love and commitment.  She doesn't.  She DOES NOT.

    image lawright:

    In answer to a few comments:  regarding her not knowing the level of commitment: she knows.  They've had numerous discussions about the topic, and they agree that they're ready to begin their lives together.  The issue is that he seems to be very slow to making decisions.  They talked about moving in together for three months before they did it, and he waited until her lease was about a week from being up before agreeing to let her move in with him.  They talked about moving to Salt Lake City for another two-three months - and he finally, very grudgingly decided to move out there.  I have a feeling that she expects another several months of conversation and working out his fears/concerns before he decides to marry her.  This is why the proposal is going to be such a huge surprise.

    Your response actually points to a lot of issues they have. 

    My darling daughter just turned 4 years old.
  • I have no other respone but: YOU NEED TO MIND YOUR OWN BUISNESS.

    Im sorry but this isnt your battle to fight...If shes doing X, or doesnt accept his proposal thats her issue. Shes a grown woman,and although you are worried (and you have the right to be) she will have to make the ultimate decision.

  • image lawright:

    Also, let me note that it's in my personality to be hugely entertained by this sort of thing.  I know it's extremely obnoxious, but I LOVE giving advice, and I love drama, and I love telling people what to do.  Thus why it's so damned hard to keep my mouth shut - the first inclination is to pick up the phone and start talking.

    Oh and BTW...

    This personality trait is very unattractive.

  • The two of you wonder why he's so slow to make decisions? Seriously? You don't see that the two of them have some real challenges in their relationship? Just from this post alone, we know she's cheated on him and now they are in disagreement over the use of drugs for recreational purposes. *insert sarcasm* Gee, can't imagine why he's having doubts about her. Oh my God. Stay out of it. You will only add more drama and confusion to the existing chaos.
  • image Lissa832:
    Number one thing is to stop making excuses for her.  Long distance relationship or not.  It does not give her the right to act like she is acting.  DH and I were in a long distance relationship for 1.5 years.  We NEVER acted like this because we were lonely.  If she cheats it is not because she's lonely.  It is because she's a whore.
     
    This! You ARE making excuses for her stupid behavior. Call a spade a spade.
  • Take that huge step back and stay back. Because:

    1) This is none of your business.

    2) Your evaluations of him, her, and the relationship appear to be seriously flawed and therefore your advice can only be harmful to this situation. Just let it go.

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