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Father and Wedding Woes (Long)...Advice

I am new to posting on the boards, but I really do need help in handling this situation with my father. He and I do not have the greatest relationship, but as I have gotten older, he and I have gotten along better. When I got engaged, he was not overly thrilled. My fiance hates him (with good reasons), along with my mother, stepfather, and future FIL. My father is a know-it-all and very conservative. He has a tendency to not agree with any ideas that anyone else comes up with.

Until recently, my dad has been pretty good with the wedding stuff. He has kept his comments to himself unless he thinks they are really out there. However, now that my fiance and I have started making deposits on locations and venues, he has become a real pain in the azz. We are doing a destination wedding in Florida, and when I told my dad he told me he hates Florida. He then told me if I wanted him to go that I should move the location. He has since given up on the stand and is going. My mother has asked that the parents pay for the accommodations for our guests, to which my future FIL and stepfather are perfectly alright with. When she asked my dad, he got snotty with her and asked why I didn't talk to him about it, that it was the first time he had heard about it, and was wondering why it was costing so much (NOTE: accommodations for 39 people is costing less than $3000 TOTAL or about $1000 per parental group). With it being a destination wedding, I did not invite any extended family members except for one nephew who is my fiance's best man. My dad freaked out that his sisters were going to be upset that they were not going to get to go and my uncles were going to be disappointed (my dad is the youngest of 9). We are having a big reception back home in August after the wedding, but my dad assures me that it will not be enough to contend with his siblings, so I should reconsider inviting them.

When I told him what the date was to the wedding (May 15, 2010), he was concerned that it was going to overlap with my little brother's prom so I should change the date (though I have already booked it with the venue for that date). This has been the biggest issue and I am about to lose it with him. Basically the Saturday before our wedding is my college graduation and the week after the honeymoon is my little brother's high school graduation. I have tried to arrange all of this so that I can get the wedding and honeymoon done at once so I can start a job without taking interruptions as a new employee. My dad is more concerned that it will make my brother miss his prom, so he is trying to guilt trip me. I do feel bad for my brother, but I told him that if he really wants to go to prom and it is at that time, he can go to prom. I will be disappointed that he is not there, but at the same time I will not love him any less if he isn't.

 I am just at the end of my rope. How do I handle all of this? I want to scream and yell and tell my dad he is no longer invited, but I can't bring myself to do it (and would regret it). Any advice for anyone who has had similar family quarrels? I don't want to exclude him, but I don't want to be crying on my wedding day because he doesn't show or says something hateful.

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Re: Father and Wedding Woes (Long)...Advice

  • It's very simple: do not let him hock you, ply you with guilt or try to talk you into anything you do not want to do.

    You've got a long ways to go and this is way early on for all this drama. What you do: from here on in, say nothing to the dad; mum's the word with your plans.

    If he pipes up in the future about the locale or anything else and he won't go blah blah blah, tell him, "Gee, sorry Dad: I guess you're going to miss a major event. Sorry you can't make it" and leave it at that. That should take the wind out of his sails in a hurry.

    If he gets way out of hand and over the top, maybe you can find a neutral third party that can sit the dad down and drill some sense into his head -- this person should let him know how much the dad's behavior is hurting you and that he should stop asap.

     

     

     

  • image TarponMonoxide:

    It's very simple: do not let him hock you, ply you with guilt or try to talk you into anything you do not want to do.

    You've got a long ways to go and this is way early on for all this drama. What you do: from here on in, say nothing to the dad; mum's the word with your plans.

    If he pipes up in the future about the locale or anything else and he won't go blah blah blah, tell him, "Gee, sorry Dad: I guess you're going to miss a major event. Sorry you can't make it" and leave it at that. That should take the wind out of his sails in a hurry.

    If he gets way out of hand and over the top, maybe you can find a neutral third party that can sit the dad down and drill some sense into his head -- this person should let him know how much the dad's behavior is hurting you and that he should stop asap.

     

    I'd add pay your own way and not ask him for a dime. 

  • GBCKGBCK member
    Ancient Membership Combo Breaker
    image SirenThanatos:
    *snip*

    My mother has asked that the parents pay for the accommodations for our guests, to which my future FIL and stepfather are perfectly alright with. When she asked my dad, he got snotty with her and asked why I didn't talk to him about it, that it was the first time he had heard about it, and was wondering why it was costing so much (NOTE: accommodations for 39 people is costing less than $3000 TOTAL or about $1000 per parental group).

     

    You had me until you were spending HIS money without discussing it with him first.  Then you lost me.

    You either take his money and, in doing so, allow him a certain amount of imput and control into your plans or you don't take his money and regain full control.

     

  • i'd also avoid asking all of the prents to give $1K.  pay for your guests yourselves... or haver the guests pay for their accomodstions.  as a guest i would expect to pay my own way.
  • image GBCK:
    image SirenThanatos:
    *snip*

    My mother has asked that the parents pay for the accommodations for our guests, to which my future FIL and stepfather are perfectly alright with. When she asked my dad, he got snotty with her and asked why I didn't talk to him about it, that it was the first time he had heard about it, and was wondering why it was costing so much (NOTE: accommodations for 39 people is costing less than $3000 TOTAL or about $1000 per parental group).

    ?

    You had me until you were spending HIS money without discussing it with him first.? Then you lost me.

    You either take his money and, in doing so, allow him a certain amount of imput and control into your plans or you don't take his money and regain full control.

    ?

    This. ?And honestly, it's kinda crappy to pick your brother's prom as your wedding date. ?Seriously, you couldn't find another weekend out of the 52 each year?

  • image GBCK:
    image SirenThanatos:
    *snip*

    My mother has asked that the parents pay for the accommodations for our guests, to which my future FIL and stepfather are perfectly alright with. When she asked my dad, he got snotty with her and asked why I didn't talk to him about it, that it was the first time he had heard about it, and was wondering why it was costing so much (NOTE: accommodations for 39 people is costing less than $3000 TOTAL or about $1000 per parental group).

    You had me until you were spending HIS money without discussing it with him first.  Then you lost me.

    You either take his money and, in doing so, allow him a certain amount of imput and control into your plans or you don't take his money and regain full control.

     

    I agree with this. Once you start taking money from other people, that opens up the door for them to have a say. If you don't want your dad to have a say, don't accept his money.

    That being said, I think it was really thoughtless of you to pick a date that you knew could conflict with your brother's prom. Out of all the other months and weekends in the year, I'm sure you could have found something that didn't potentially force your brother to choose (and most likely miss his prom).

  • Honestly- I'm not seeing a whole lot wrong w/ your dad.  Sure- he's griping a lot.  But at the same time, when you make a decision to have a small DW, people are bound to not be happy about it.  And he isn't.  Especially when he's being asked/told what he should be contributing..... that gives him a right to gripe.

    Sure, I don't htink he should be complaining to you about EVERY little thing, but at the same time, he's allowed to have his opinions on the wedding. 

    And I have to agree- of ALL the other weekends, to pick the one that will conflict w/ another big event in your brothers life is sucky.

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    ~Benjamin Franklin

    Lilypie Third Birthday tickers
    DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10

  • My brother has never wanted to go to prom, and still to this day does not want to go to prom. He thinks it is a big waste of time and money. My parents are making him walk in his high school graduation because he refuses to go through with it. Also, taking money from my dad was not my idea and I did not ask him for it. My mother wanted that to be their gift to us, which my future FIL agrees with (he gave each of his other kids $1000 as their wedding gift). I did mention that my mom wanted to talk to him about it and that I did not ask her to talk to him about it, either. I agree with the not taking his money if he is going to keep acting like this.

    Edit: I have also been engaged for 2 years and have discussed May with family for those 2 years. No one has ever said anything about May being a bad month or the weekend we chose as being a bad weekend until we put down a deposit. ?

  • image SirenThanatos:

    My brother has never wanted to go to prom, and still to this day does not want to go to prom. He thinks it is a big waste of time and money.

    Well, that would have been good to know before! :-)  In this case, your dad needs to STFU!

    image SirenThanatos:
    My mother wanted that to be their gift to us, which my future FIL agrees with (he gave each of his other kids $1000 as their wedding gift).
    Your mom needs to back off.  It's not up to her or your FIL's to decide what your father will give you.  They are absolutely 100% wrong to try and dictate to him that this is his gift. 
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
    ~Benjamin Franklin

    Lilypie Third Birthday tickers
    DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10

  • image grrlygirl:
    image GBCK:
    image SirenThanatos:
    *snip*

    My mother has asked that the parents pay for the accommodations for our guests, to which my future FIL and stepfather are perfectly alright with. When she asked my dad, he got snotty with her and asked why I didn't talk to him about it, that it was the first time he had heard about it, and was wondering why it was costing so much (NOTE: accommodations for 39 people is costing less than $3000 TOTAL or about $1000 per parental group).

     

    You had me until you were spending HIS money without discussing it with him first.  Then you lost me.

    You either take his money and, in doing so, allow him a certain amount of imput and control into your plans or you don't take his money and regain full control.

     

    This.  And honestly, it's kinda crappy to pick your brother's prom as your wedding date.  Seriously, you couldn't find another weekend out of the 52 each year?

    This. All this.

    People who pay have a right to gripe. If you have time for a big "reception" in August you had time for a wedding then as well.

  • image SirenThanatos:

    Also, taking money from my dad was not my idea and I did not ask him for it. My mother wanted that to be their gift to us, which my future FIL agrees with (he gave each of his other kids $1000 as their wedding gift). I did mention that my mom wanted to talk to him about it and that I did not ask her to talk to him about it, either. I agree with the not taking his money if he is going to keep acting like this.

    I guess I'm confused. If you don't want his money and never wanted his money, why are you taking his money? Don't take his money. It's really quite simple, unless somebody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to take his money under the threat of death, and I didn't read that anywhere in your post.

    fiizzlee = vag ** fiizzle = peen ** Babies shouldn't be born wit thangs ** **They're called first luddz fo' a reason -- mo' is supposed ta come after. Yo Ass don't git a medal fo' marryin yo' prom date. Unless yo ass is imoan. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. Then yo ass git a all-expenses paid cruise ta tha Mediterranean n' yo ass git ta hook up Jared Padalecki on tha flight over while bustin yo' jammies. But still no medal.
  • image SirenThanatos:

    My brother has never wanted to go to prom, and still to this day does not want to go to prom. He thinks it is a big waste of time and money. My parents are making him walk in his high school graduation because he refuses to go through with it. Also, taking money from my dad was not my idea and I did not ask him for it. My mother wanted that to be their gift to us, which my future FIL agrees with (he gave each of his other kids $1000 as their wedding gift). I did mention that my mom wanted to talk to him about it and that I did not ask her to talk to him about it, either. I agree with the not taking his money if he is going to keep acting like this.

    Edit: I have also been engaged for 2 years and have discussed May with family for those 2 years. No one has ever said anything about May being a bad month or the weekend we chose as being a bad weekend until we put down a deposit.  

    Then your dad is using this as ammo to add more guilt (and there are also probably a lot of schools who don't plan a prom a year ahead; maybe your brother's school was one of them)

     I also second not taking his money. This way, you've got more leverage -- and I'd hate to see Dad go, "Oh, yeah? well if that is how you feel, not a cent for your wedding." I'd not be suprised if he resorts to emotional/monetary blackmail -- in this case, be prepared.

  • If you don't take his money, you gain a lot of leverage in this situation.  It's very unfair of your mom/stepfather/future FIL to decide FOR your dad how much he's "required" to contribute to your wedding plans and for what the money will be spent.

    You have twelve months left.   Set aside $85 a month out of your own pockets and you'll have the thousand dollars plus the peace of mind that comes with knowing that your dad can't hold a financial contribution over your heads.

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Lilypie Fourth Birthday tickers Lilypie Third Birthday tickers
  • My dad is more concerned that it will make my brother miss his prom, so he is trying to guilt trip me. I do feel bad for my brother, but I told him that if he really wants to go to prom and it is at that time, he can go to prom. I will be disappointed that he is not there, but at the same time I will not love him any less if he isn't.

     

    My brother has never wanted to go to prom, and still to this day does not want to go to prom. He thinks it is a big waste of time and money

     

    If the second quote is true then why do you feel bad for your brother, why did you tell him if he wants to go he can???  It sounds to me like pp's called you out on having your wedding the same weekend as your brother's prom and you backstracked in order to not look so bad.

    Your dad doesn't sound that bad.  Your Mom sounds a whole heck of a lot worse.  If my ex-wife called me and demanded $1,000 from me to pay for guests for my daughters destination wedding I would tell her to STFU, too.  I would also call you and give you a piece of my mind as well.  As I told a pp in another thread, NOBODY IS OBLIGATED TO PAY FOR YOUR WEDDING.  NOBODY IS OBLIGATED TO BUY YOU ONE DARN THING FOR YOUR WEDDING.  YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND $1,000 "GIFTS" FOR YOUR WEDDING.  I have a very hard time believing that you had NO CLUE what your mom was doing.  And, the moment you found out what she did why in the world would you not call your dad and apologize or your Mom's horrible rudeness?  My guess though is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

  • I agree that your mother and FIL have no right telling your dad what his gift to you will be. If they want to make that their gift then why can't they just pay for all the guests? I understand your dad being upset that more family isn't invited, he probably feels like his side of the family isn't as important to you has your moms or FI.
    [url=http://www.sarahbethbeauty.com/] Sarah Beth Beauty - Make-Up Artist
    [/url]
  • image sarahtucker:
    I agree that your mother and FIL have no right telling your dad what his gift to you will be. If they want to make that their gift then why can't they just pay for all the guests? I understand your dad being upset that more family isn't invited, he probably feels like his side of the family isn't as important to you has your moms or FI.

    Exactly.  His family isn't good enough, but his money is. Confused

  • image zitiqueen:
    image SirenThanatos:

    Also, taking money from my dad was not my idea and I did not ask him for it. My mother wanted that to be their gift to us, which my future FIL agrees with (he gave each of his other kids $1000 as their wedding gift). I did mention that my mom wanted to talk to him about it and that I did not ask her to talk to him about it, either. I agree with the not taking his money if he is going to keep acting like this.

    I guess I'm confused. If you don't want his money and never wanted his money, why are you taking his money? Don't take his money. It's really quite simple, unless somebody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to take his money under the threat of death, and I didn't read that anywhere in your post.

     

    She has to take his money - she's still in college so has none.  Another reason people shouldn't get married this young; you're still dependent upon others to make things happen that YOU want.  Many people's families help or pay for their children's weddings, but when you're still in college and NEED Mommy and Daddy to buy you things... well you're just not as independent as you'd like everyone to think.  80% of marriages among people who marry under the age of 25 end in divorce.  You are trying to get people to do whatever you want, and pay for it instead of doing it yourself.  I'm sure it is difficult to deal with all of this, but you're basically throwing a temper tantrum for everyone not doing what you want, when you want, for the money you want from them because you don't have much of your own.  But you still want to be a "big girl" and have your dream wedding and make sure everyone else does what you want.  Oh yeah, and your mom is adding to the drama.  You aren't secure enough in your decisions to let others have their own opinions without them making you defensive/insecure about your own.  Good luck.  You need it. 

  • If I'm judging your father correctly based on the OP and follow up, I am thinking that maybe your mother, in an attempt to do something really nice for you all suggested to all parents involved that they pay the $1k for accomodations.  I haven't seen anything to suggest that your mother is pressuring him to do it if he chooses not to get involved - is that right or no???

    Unless your mother is being unreasonably pushy about it, I could see this being a situation where your father took the request to pay (god forbid, contribute to your own daughter's wedding?!?!?!) as an excuse to *** and whine even more.  That sucks.

    Unfortunately, when it comes to immediate family, you have to pretty much accept that they are not going to change.  Your father is obviously whiny and complains his way through life.  I've always thought that weddings/wedding planning tends to bring out the worst in people (at least people who are already not so hot to begin with), so unfortunately, as pp have said, you are not really dealing with anything mind-blowing or new here.  Weddings create drama, there's just no way around it.  Do your best to ignore his needling and just focus on having a great day.

    Last thing - don't project more drama onto the situation.  If you assume that your father will continue in this pattern and ruin everything, you are going to have a much harder time.  Tell yourself that this isn't a big deal, everything is going to be fine and try to keep that attitude all throughout the year.  You've got a ways to go - if you are this stressed about things this far out... GL!!!

    52 Books in 2014??
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  • First, my fiance and I are paying for the wedding out-of-pocket except for the accommodations (which was going to be paid for by guests until my mother wanted it to be our gift). We put aside $100 each month for the wedding so that we do not have to go into debt in order to pay for it and have $10,000 between the two of us to pay for it as well. I do see now that my mother should not have asked for money from my father and that I should have probably done better in warning him other than just saying "Hey dad, mom is going to talk to you about money for the wedding."?

    Second, my dad's family calls my siblings and I "heathen children" and didn't tell my dad for three days that his sister had died (or had been actively dying for a week, for that matter). We are not close and I cannot even name all of his siblings. No other extended family is coming except parents, siblings, and the one nephew who is like a brother to my fiance.

    Really I just wanted to know if anyone had any advice on how to talk with parents who have not been the most upstanding in the past. Weddings are stressful, and so is the planning process. With no one being overly fond of my father I was just hoping that people could give me something constructive to use.?

  • I think there are two ways to go. One is not to tell him too much - then he can't argue too much about it. The other way is what pp have said. When he starts threatening you, just say, "I'm so sorry you feel that way. I hope you change your mind, as I would like you there, but this is what FH and I have chosen." And - while it's easier to say than do - remember he can't make you feel anything. Don't let him have enough power so that you will be crying on your wedding day.
    DD 2.9.10 DS born sleeping 12.2.12
  • People are giving you good and constructive advice, you just don't like what you're hearing.
    image SirenThanatos:

    First, my fiance and I are paying for the wedding out-of-pocket except for the accommodations (which was going to be paid for by guests until my mother wanted it to be our gift). We put aside $100 each month for the wedding so that we do not have to go into debt in order to pay for it and have $10,000 between the two of us to pay for it as well. I do see now that my mother should not have asked for money from my father and that I should have probably done better in warning him other than just saying "Hey dad, mom is going to talk to you about money for the wedding."?

    Second, my dad's family calls my siblings and I "heathen children" and didn't tell my dad for three days that his sister had died (or had been actively dying for a week, for that matter). We are not close and I cannot even name all of his siblings. No other extended family is coming except parents, siblings, and the one nephew who is like a brother to my fiance.

    Really I just wanted to know if anyone had any advice on how to talk with parents who have not been the most upstanding in the past. Weddings are stressful, and so is the planning process. With no one being overly fond of my father I was just hoping that people could give me something constructive to use.?

  • GBCKGBCK member
    Ancient Membership Combo Breaker

    people are giving you advice based on WHAT YOU WROTE.

    If the rest of what yo'ure saying now is/was relevant, you should have included it.  All we have to go on is what you write (see PSA on 'wording' in my bio).   And, honestly, I don't think anything you're writing changes the advice a whit.

    You and your dad have a difficult relationship--I don't take money from people I have difficult relationships with--money makes you beholden.   And those who pay have a say.

    Your mom tried to tell your dad what he should spend his money on--that's tacky no matter how you cut it--your mom can say "I'm giving the kids $$$ toward accomidations" but she shouldn't be saying "I'm giving the kids $x toward accomidations, your share is $y".  It doesn't work that way.

    And I think the advice, based on all that, given here has been VERY constructive.  Care to elaborate on why you think it's not?

  • Thank you all for the advice. I didn't want this to come down to a money issue, just how you deal with a dad who belittles everything about your wedding planning. I want him to be a part of it, but I also do not want him to ruin what should be a happy day. Not taking his money is a definite and if he continues to trash every aspect of the wedding (which, according to my mother, he keeps calling and complaining to her about it), he can just miss it.
  • image SirenThanatos:
    Thank you all for the advice. I didn't want this to come down to a money issue, just how you deal with a dad who belittles everything about your wedding planning. I want him to be a part of it, but I also do not want him to ruin what should be a happy day.

    You deal with a dad who belittles everything about your wedding planning but not telling him any of the wedding plans. If you want him to be a part of the wedding planning, accept that he's going to belittle the wedding plans.

    This isn't rocket science. If you don't want to hear any_bitching, stop giving him the opportunity to_bitch. The same goes for your mother. You two are the ones feeding the beast.

    fiizzlee = vag ** fiizzle = peen ** Babies shouldn't be born wit thangs ** **They're called first luddz fo' a reason -- mo' is supposed ta come after. Yo Ass don't git a medal fo' marryin yo' prom date. Unless yo ass is imoan. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. Then yo ass git a all-expenses paid cruise ta tha Mediterranean n' yo ass git ta hook up Jared Padalecki on tha flight over while bustin yo' jammies. But still no medal.
  • GBCKGBCK member
    Ancient Membership Combo Breaker

    I'm going to add...tell your mom you're not interested in hearing it.  Because why is she tellingyou this?  (actually, w hy is she leting dad tell her tis?)

    Your dad is telling mom he thinks your plans suck.  Your mom is telling you.  You already know your dad's opinion, what GOOD can come from your mom repeateing this information to you?

    Next time mom starts to spread this gossip, simply say "mom, I know dad's opinion, I'm not interested in hearing it."  Change the subject.

     

  • You came on here and mentioned 3 things your dad has complained about about your wedding.  1.) The location.  Considering it's a dw, he has every right to complain about it and expect more complaints.  2.) The date.  It's on your little brother's prom, so yes, he has every right to complain about your lack of planning and lack of concern for you brother.  3.) The money.  Your mom flat up called and asked him for $1,000 (WAY more than the average gift for a wedding, even if he is the fob), and you acknowledged that you knew in advance she would do it and approved of it!!  Your mother is the one who should be getting complaints about.  She's asking for money and bitching about your dad to you (his daughter!), wow... what a keeper.
  • jbellejbelle member
    Ancient Membership Combo Breaker

    I've read through many of the responses, but, admittedly, skipped several and skimmed many, so I apologize if I'm redundant or if I missed too many of your follow ups.

    I am only adding in my two--likely worthless, LOL--cents, because I think we may have had a slightly similar situations.

    Without boring you with too many details, my theory from what you wrote is that he's getting an earful about your upcoming wedding:  why is she getting married so far away? Are you paying for you daughter's wedding? Doesn't she care what you think? Why doesn't she want your family there? Are you walking her down the aisle?  There is potential guilt coming down for any answer he could give to these questions, whether yea or nay.

    This could be from a huge onslaught of different people, one potent voice, or simply his own guilt talking.  If, for instance, it's his disparate family talking, they almost certainly have NO IDEA what your nuclear family's dynamic is, so they're imposing their own on it and--while it's no excuse--your dad is alone to try and mitigate it.  Clearly, he's not doing so hot and I'm not suggesting you give him a free pass, but having an idea where he's coming from may make it easier to deal with him.

    Most importantly, it lets you know not take his comments too personally.  You found out before when he flipped over FLA that he was mainly spewing hot air. 

    Working from this assumption (and that is all it is), I'd continue being firm but understanding.  When appropriate (it may never be) assure him you love him (let him know about fond memories you have of your times spent with him growing up), limit detailed conversations about wedding events but pick certain aspects he can help decide on, and trust that this too shall pass. Unfortunately, there may not be any perfect solution to smoothing out the coming year.  Wedding planning is often unnecessarily stressful.

    HTH, but if not, I hope you find someone who can provide better insight and I'm sorry you're dealing with this type of family stress. I

    Best wishes.

    TTC #1 since Oct. 2010. Tests normal.

    jbelle

  • Someone needs to tell your mom that she isn't your dad's wife any more, because she seems to think she has a say in how his money is spent.

    image
  • So you're paying for all of your wedding, except the accomodation?  Good, then just tell your father that he doesn't have to contribute, save like crazy and pay the last 1K yourselves.  Then he has no say in your planning. 

    I understand why you want a DW, but not every family member will be happy about it, it robs them of the chance to celebrate your big day with you. So expect some negative responses from close family, it's par for the course.  BUT  it's your wedding so you should do what you want.

    Like others on here, I don't understand why you would book your wedding around the same date as your brother's prom. Even if you thnk he doesn't want to go now, he may change his mind closer to the event. It just creates more unnecessary drama that could have been avoided.

    I wish you well on your future planning and hope all goes well on your big day.

     

  • image ReturnOfKuus:

    Someone needs to tell your mom that she isn't your dad's wife any more, because she seems to think she has a say in how his money is spent.

    Ditto.

    Also, if your father is such a bad guy that does so many bad things that your fiance hates "for good reason" - why is he involved anyway?

    Oh that's right!  Because he's giving you money.  So he's good enough to accept and expect money from, but crap the rest of the time?

    image
    *made with love by ibis*
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