Politics & Current Events

Atheists - I went to Church tonight and I need to talk about it!

So, I went to the Catholic Church tonight as my FIL was being baptized and joined the church. I didn't particularly care to go, but it was important to him, and also to DH that we support his dad. I also figured it would be interesting as I hadn't been to church other than weddings in a while, and obviously Easter is an important time for Christians.

Now - I mentioned that DH was raised Catholic, and had previously expressed a mild interest in raising the spawn Catholic. Obviously I had ZERO interest - but had said if it was important to DH I'd consider. And I did mean that - I was fine with DH taking the kids to church provided I was free to express MY views as well. 

SO after church tonight, we're coming home, and DH tells me that after today, he has no interest in raising the kids Catholic, or baptizing them, or frankly any religion because that was just "ridiculous". Of course, I'm happy with that decision so that we will somewhat on the same page as far as church/lack therof goes but I was curious as to what the 'breaking' point was.

Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

I asked him if he liked any part of it - to which he said, the story about the comfort people feel knowing they are going to a better place when they die. Which he isn't sure of anymore, but is certainly a nice thought. He also said he doesn't need to attend church or raise our kids there to think that.

So - moral of the story for those atheists with a spouse who believes and/or aren't sure what to do with the kids: go to church! Your spouse may never wish to go again :)

 

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Re: Atheists - I went to Church tonight and I need to talk about it!

  • Really?  In my experience, Easter Vigil mass is the best one of the year.  I'm sorry it was crappy for you guys, but I'm glad you've found a direction for solving your kid concerns.  Smile
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  • lol. no one hates catholics more than former catholics! 
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  • I LOLed at "a kick to evolution's balls"!  And I'm glad that you guys are on the same page.  

    It's funny about the comfort knowing you're going somewhere when you die thing, because I'm comforted just knowing that I was lucky enough to have this life and that I'll be slipping back into the black nothingness, and leaving (hopefully) good memories for my family.  I just hope to leave a legacy of being a good mom/wife and raising kickass kids who do something great.  Or who are just good people who don't do anything terrible.

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  • image taratru:
    Really?  In my experience, Easter Vigil mass is the best one of the year.  I'm sorry it was crappy for you guys, but I'm glad you've found a direction for solving your kid concerns.  Smile

    I actually went thinking I'd perhaps end up more open to raising our kids with some religious background, but this particular priest/parish is just SO literal & conservative, it would never work for me. But even i was surprised by how turned off DH was. He hadn't been in years - we were married in the United Church of Canada because I wanted a church that was accepting of gays & lesbians if I was too be married in a church at all. 

    I did offer to DH if he wants to go to a United service sometime we can, but he said he's really not interested for the time being. 

     

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  • Maybe the Catholic church isn't the church for your DH.  Maybe he'd feel comfortable in another religion.  I was kind of raised Catholic, but it never suited me.  I've been through a variety of denominations until I found one that fit.  I consider myself a non-denominational Christian.  None of the churches I've ever attended said "we rock and the others suck."  No wonder he doesn't want to go back.

    He might try the Lutheran church.  I call it "Catholic Lite."

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    image Jermysgirl:

    I LOLed at "a kick to evolution's balls"!  And I'm glad that you guys are on the same page.  

    It's funny about the comfort knowing you're going somewhere when you die thing, because I'm comforted just knowing that I was lucky enough to have this life and that I'll be slipping back into the black nothingness, and leaving (hopefully) good memories for my family.  I just hope to leave a legacy of being a good mom/wife and raising kickass kids who do something great.  Or who are just good people who don't do anything terrible.

    This is where I'm at. Took a while to get there, but now the idea of something always watching, always judging, always... evaluating - - and then the possibility that all the times you try to do good could still add up to nada and you could forever be exiled or burn in hell or whatever - - somehow nothingness is hugely easier to swallow.

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  • image Jermysgirl:

    It's funny about the comfort knowing you're going somewhere when you die thing, because I'm comforted just knowing that I was lucky enough to have this life and that I'll be slipping back into the black nothingness, and leaving (hopefully) good memories for my family.  I just hope to leave a legacy of being a good mom/wife and raising kickass kids who do something great.  Or who are just good people who don't do anything terrible.

    I feel this way, too.  It's pretty comforting that when I'm dead, I'll have no comprehension that I'm dead or was ever alive, because I will not have consciousness.  I don't really understand why some people think that is scary or sad.  "Scary" and "sad" don't exist when you're dead.

    It makes me a little sad that when I die, I won't get to see how the world continues to unfold, but I'm not sad or scared for what will happen to me personally.

    Can you imagine going to the kind of heaven that some believe in, where you're reunited with your family for all eternity?  What a nightmare.

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  • Yeah, if the priest was literal about genesis, he was doing it wrong. The Church very much believes in evolution. We like science
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  • image majorwife:
    lol. no one hates catholics more than former catholics! 

    Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have entered this thread. 

    Hugs to you too!

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image 2Vermont:

    image majorwife:
    lol. no one hates catholics more than former catholics! 

    Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have entered this thread. 

    Hugs to you too!

    I don't think  that was to be rude.  The most vocal against a faith are the fallen/no longe members  

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  • image TefLepOM:
    Yeah, if the priest was literal about genesis, he was doing it wrong. The Church very much believes in evolution. We like science

    We live in a pretty conservative area, so I'm not necessarily surprised by that - but I think for DH it was a reminder of why he never goes to church - just not compatible with most of his beliefs.

    I do agree that most outspoken people are probably those who have been part of that religion at some point and left. 

    image


  • I never go into religious places for the same reason I never go to football games - I dont like them, they dont like me, and everyone is better off if I am not there lol.

    But my brother is getting married, and its a Hindu wedding because his fiance is a Hindu. I have been told that it will be in a temple, and I have to bow to some religious person or other when I enter. I will absolutely not do this. So now I have to work out the best thing to do - go and not bow, go and not enter the building, or not go.

    Luckily, my brother is a DNA scientist and an atheist too, so he will understand, but its still lame.

     

     

  • image majorwife:
    lol. no one hates catholics more than former catholics! 

    I wouldn't say "hate," but I've heard them referred to as "recovering Catholics" and the level of bitterness can be pretty high. 

    Also, we discussed this briefly in Helper's thread, but Catholics are indeed taught that Catholicism is the one true religion. I've never heard any of our priests (we have four) directly criticize other religions and I, as a non-Catholic, have never felt unwelcome in our church. However, my husband attended Catholic school and said they had it pounded into their heads that Catholics were the real deal and the rest of us were just wrong. 

  • image Reeve:

    I never go into religious places for the same reason I never go to football games - I dont like them, they dont like me, and everyone is better off if I am not there lol.

    But my brother is getting married, and its a Hindu wedding because his fiance is a Hindu. I have been told that it will be in a temple, and I have to bow to some religious person or other when I enter. I will absolutely not do this. So now I have to work out the best thing to do - go and not bow, go and not enter the building, or not go.

    Luckily, my brother is a DNA scientist and an atheist too, so he will understand, but its still lame.

     

    I had this debate last night in the Church over this part of the baptism where the family is supposed to stand around FIL and support him '100% in his Catholic endeavors" or something to that effect. I didn't want to do it - I mean, i can support my FIL as a person without supporting his choice to join a church whose views/teachings I strongly disagree with. I also felt it would be rude of me to do when I didn't mean it. I have enough respect for the religion that i didn't want to participate in an important part of the ceremony when I didnt believe it. Does that make sense?

    I asked DH what to do, and he wanted me to stand up there, but I still felt like i shouldn't, not only to be true to MY beliefs but because i was lying to the Priest.

    In the end, I stood up there, but didn't recite any lines.  

    image


  • image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

  • image LaurierGirl28:
    image Reeve:

    I never go into religious places for the same reason I never go to football games - I dont like them, they dont like me, and everyone is better off if I am not there lol.

    But my brother is getting married, and its a Hindu wedding because his fiance is a Hindu. I have been told that it will be in a temple, and I have to bow to some religious person or other when I enter. I will absolutely not do this. So now I have to work out the best thing to do - go and not bow, go and not enter the building, or not go.

    Luckily, my brother is a DNA scientist and an atheist too, so he will understand, but its still lame.

     

    I had this debate last night in the Church over this part of the baptism where the family is supposed to stand around FIL and support him '100% in his Catholic endeavors" or something to that effect. I didn't want to do it - I mean, i can support my FIL as a person without supporting his choice to join a church whose views/teachings I strongly disagree with. I also felt it would be rude of me to do when I didn't mean it. I have enough respect for the religion that i didn't want to participate in an important part of the ceremony when I didnt believe it. Does that make sense?

    I asked DH what to do, and he wanted me to stand up there, but I still felt like i shouldn't, not only to be true to MY beliefs but because i was lying to the Priest.

    In the end, I stood up there, but didn't recite any lines.  

     

    Yeah, this stuff is tricky. I have no wish to cause offense - at least, I wont go into someone else's place of worship and be offensive. But if I did bow it would be a mockery, and offensive to me as well, so thats no good. What use is fake piousness to anyone? And yet, its my brothers big day, and I don't want to do even the slightest thing to mess with it. For a whlie I just said I wouldn't go to any religious building, but then my stepfather died, and he was religious, so I had to go to his church funeral.

    That made me so mad, the whole service was basically "we are sad Brian has left us, but isn't the blood of Jesus totally awesome y'all? Wow, we really love Jesus!" I wanted to punch the priest in the face, and am still furious about it even now. In an hour service, about 5 minutes was dedicated to my stepfathers life, the rest was bullsh!t efforts to convince the very obvious non believers that Jesus was don dada.

  • image StrawberryBlondie:
    image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

    not in my 34 years of attending. 
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  • image TefLepOM:
    image StrawberryBlondie:
    image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

    not in my 34 years of attending. 

    Thanks... I thought it was a little strange, especially considering there were like 8 baptisms during that mass, so it's likely a large portion of those in attendance weren't Catholic, or members of that particular church. 

  • image TefLepOM:
    image StrawberryBlondie:
    image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

    not in my 34 years of attending. 

    I think it really goes to show how 1 or 2 important 'heads' of something can really attract or repel you. I loved the minister who married us in the United Church and I would be considerably more open to attending that because he was welcoming, engaging, wasnt proselytizing etc. well, that and its considerably more liberal.  

    image


  • image StrawberryBlondie:
    image TefLepOM:
    image StrawberryBlondie:
    image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

    not in my 34 years of attending. 

    Thanks... I thought it was a little strange, especially considering there were like 8 baptisms during that mass, so it's likely a large portion of those in attendance weren't Catholic, or members of that particular church. 

    I have heard people mention this and it bugs me that there are priests that do it.  I have not encountered it and most homilies are about love, being better people, and, once in a while, abortion (not my fave, but it is not fire and brimstone )
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  • image LaurierGirl28:

    an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.

    Sounds like a weird priest.  I can honestly say I never felt that was pushed at me when I a Catholic. I know they believe it, as most every faith does, but they don't want to advertise it too strongly anymore.

    I miss church sometimes - especially at the holidays. Easter doesn't make much sense to me without that. It was just that I finally had to own up to the pretense and admit that I just didn't believe in it all. I don't know how I would have handled the religious education of a child.  I can't say definitively that I would have been against my child going to a Catholic church because I think there are lots of good things a child could gain from it. Jesus ain't a bad role model, after all, and there is the sense of community one gets from going to church.

  • I'm pretty surprised they did a baptism during Easter Vigil. I haven't been exposed (thankfully) to priests who make non-Catholics feel in any way unwelcome and certainly not proclaiming that they would go to hell. Not in 40 plus years of participation in the Catholic Mass. Whey they complain about how the media treats them unfairly in their child molestation stories - that um.. bugs me... (at a memorial Mass in Boston for one on DH's uncles a few years back - thought I'd never step foot in a church again after that)
  • image TefLepOM:
    image 2Vermont:

    image majorwife:
    lol. no one hates catholics more than former catholics! 

    Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have entered this thread. 

    Hugs to you too!

    I don't think  that was to be rude.  The most vocal against a faith are the fallen/no longe members  

    I hope not.  I think what surprised me was the hate against "catholics".

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image jillboston:
    I'm pretty surprised they did a baptism during Easter Vigil. I haven't been exposed (thankfully) to priests who make non-Catholics feel in any way unwelcome and certainly not proclaiming that they would go to hell. Not in 40 plus years of participation in the Catholic Mass.

    Actually, adult baptism is very common during the Easter Vigil.  This is the Mass when new Catholics enter the Church. 

    I also have never been to a Mass where the priest says those of other religions are going to Hell.  Heck, most of the time they don't even talk about the reality of sin...a lot of time it's a bunch of fluff.

    For those that say they experienced this, did the priest literally say this or did you interpret what he said to mean this? 

     

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • I know the party line is that the mass is the same everywhere, but really it's not. A lot of it is cultural and a lot of it comes down to what the priest/deacon wants to talk about. I've been to Catholic masses all over the world and they are not at all the same. A 3 hour mass is going to have a whole lot of extra content! I've been to masses overwhelmed with fire and brimstone where you'd have thought you were in a pentacostal church that believes in transubstantiation and I've been to masses where the priest (a papal nuncio no less) basically said everyone goes to heaven and it's unCatholic to believe otherwise.
     
    I also agree with whoever said that I've heard much more of the "Catholicism is the one true religion" in Catholic schools and from ultra-conservative family members and less so in the mass itself. Last night the father of a childhood friend joined the church. His wife is a good friend of my mom's and has been since HS. My mom's comment: "it's such a relief, because now she won't be separated from her husband for eternity!" Ok mom :)
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  • image LaurierGirl28:
    image Reeve:

    I never go into religious places for the same reason I never go to football games - I dont like them, they dont like me, and everyone is better off if I am not there lol.

    But my brother is getting married, and its a Hindu wedding because his fiance is a Hindu. I have been told that it will be in a temple, and I have to bow to some religious person or other when I enter. I will absolutely not do this. So now I have to work out the best thing to do - go and not bow, go and not enter the building, or not go.

    Luckily, my brother is a DNA scientist and an atheist too, so he will understand, but its still lame.

     

    I had this debate last night in the Church over this part of the baptism where the family is supposed to stand around FIL and support him '100% in his Catholic endeavors" or something to that effect. I didn't want to do it - I mean, i can support my FIL as a person without supporting his choice to join a church whose views/teachings I strongly disagree with. I also felt it would be rude of me to do when I didn't mean it. I have enough respect for the religion that i didn't want to participate in an important part of the ceremony when I didnt believe it. Does that make sense?

    I asked DH what to do, and he wanted me to stand up there, but I still felt like i shouldn't, not only to be true to MY beliefs but because i was lying to the Priest.

    In the end, I stood up there, but didn't recite any lines.  

    Ok...in all of the Easter Vigils I have attended (including the one when I entered the Church), I have never seen this.  Usually there is a parish sponsor that will stand with the candidates/catechumens.  Something seems off here.

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image mxolisi:
    I know the party line is that the mass is the same everywhere, but really it's not. A lot of it is cultural and a lot of it comes down to what the priest/deacon wants to talk about.
     
    I think when people say this they are aware that each homily can be different and that certain cultural tradiitions can come into play (not to mention the language).  When we say it is the same, we mean that the parts of the mass are the same.  The responses are the same.  The order of the mass is the same. The fact that  Jesus is made truly present is the same.
    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image StrawberryBlondie:
    image LaurierGirl28:


    Basically, the service started with Genesis (?) and God creating the earth, etc., which DH called "a drop-kick to evolutions balls";  continued with the birth of Jesus to "virgin" Mary (DH said his biology class clearly tells him otherwise) and then an hour of why Catholicism is awesome and the other religions are wrong. Pretty much a shot at the visitors who weren't Catholic.  It turned him off completely.

    Is the bolded a common thing in Catholic mass? We went to a baptism a few years ago and the homily was pretty heavy on the "non-Catholics and non-believers are going to hell" bit. 

    Last time I went to church (Catholic Church for an Easter mass with DH and his family), this was exactly the topic of the sermon. and its why I will never go back except for weddings and funeral, where I tune out. 

    and yes, the priest, who was about 90, literally said that non-Catholics were going to hell.

    And this was in NJ, where we are supposedly more liberal than the rest of the country. Good way to keep members in your parish, given the high rates of intermarriage in the state. 

    :)
  • image Reeve:
    image LaurierGirl28:
    image Reeve:

    I never go into religious places for the same reason I never go to football games - I dont like them, they dont like me, and everyone is better off if I am not there lol.

    But my brother is getting married, and its a Hindu wedding because his fiance is a Hindu. I have been told that it will be in a temple, and I have to bow to some religious person or other when I enter. I will absolutely not do this. So now I have to work out the best thing to do - go and not bow, go and not enter the building, or not go.

    Luckily, my brother is a DNA scientist and an atheist too, so he will understand, but its still lame.

     

    I had this debate last night in the Church over this part of the baptism where the family is supposed to stand around FIL and support him '100% in his Catholic endeavors" or something to that effect. I didn't want to do it - I mean, i can support my FIL as a person without supporting his choice to join a church whose views/teachings I strongly disagree with. I also felt it would be rude of me to do when I didn't mean it. I have enough respect for the religion that i didn't want to participate in an important part of the ceremony when I didnt believe it. Does that make sense?

    I asked DH what to do, and he wanted me to stand up there, but I still felt like i shouldn't, not only to be true to MY beliefs but because i was lying to the Priest.

    In the end, I stood up there, but didn't recite any lines.  

     

    Yeah, this stuff is tricky. I have no wish to cause offense - at least, I wont go into someone else's place of worship and be offensive. But if I did bow it would be a mockery, and offensive to me as well, so thats no good. What use is fake piousness to anyone? And yet, its my brothers big day, and I don't want to do even the slightest thing to mess with it. For a whlie I just said I wouldn't go to any religious building, but then my stepfather died, and he was religious, so I had to go to his church funeral.

    That made me so mad, the whole service was basically "we are sad Brian has left us, but isn't the blood of Jesus totally awesome y'all? Wow, we really love Jesus!" I wanted to punch the priest in the face, and am still furious about it even now. In an hour service, about 5 minutes was dedicated to my stepfathers life, the rest was bullsh!t efforts to convince the very obvious non believers that Jesus was don dada.

    I don't know if it helps but my Jewish mother and brother attended the Easter Vigil when I entered the Church.  I'm sure it wasn't all that comfortable for them either, but they did it out of love for me (I suspect!)

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image 2Vermont:
    image mxolisi:
    I know the party line is that the mass is the same everywhere, but really it's not. A lot of it is cultural and a lot of it comes down to what the priest/deacon wants to talk about.
     
    I think when people say this they are aware that each homily can be different and that certain cultural tradiitions can come into play (not to mention the language).  When we say it is the same, we mean that the parts of the mass are the same.  The responses are the same.  The order of the mass is the same. The fact that  Jesus is made truly present is the same.
    plus I don't think there is a.partyline as much as anecdote s are usually not indicative of reality for all.
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