Starting Over

Just had an in depth convo with a man (friend) about cheating...

I just had a long discussion with a married friend of mine, whom I've worked with and have known for a loooong time (as friends).  The conversation began because obviously I have major trust issues (which most of us here probably do) and I told him about the married man that we both work with who asked me out to "lunch" last week.  He thought it was the funniest effing thing ever (and yes, he prob cheats on his wife too..wouldn't surprise me in the least). So I said, I don't think it's funny, I find it to be disgraceful... and so I asked him, in his experience with all his married friends ..DO ALL MEN CHEAT?  And he said ...and I quote... "I don't know how to tell you this, but I want to say that yes most men cheat...not all, but definitely most."  Ughhhh.. my heart just sank.  I'm just so bummed at what he had to say.  I know this is a sore subject for most of us, so I'm sorry if I'm hurting anyone's feelings bringing it up.. but I just want to know what's your take on this?  I am working with my therapist about my major trust issues...but I am having a real hard time with this lately, I guess because this other married asssclown at work brought back old cheating memories.  S/O: what are your thoughts on this and what he said?  And if you have been cheated on... how the hell do you get over it and learn to trust again?  I'm losing faith..help

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Re: Just had an in depth convo with a man (friend) about cheating...

  • have you gone to the site survivingfidelity.com? I think that's the website.
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  • I think cheating is more prevalent than most of us realize, in both men and women. I've had 4 relationships since my divorce, and every single one of them divorced because their wives cheated. And two of them (current guy included) are great guys that I couldn't imagine anyone cheating on.

    I think it's really, really sad that people don't have any more respect for their significant others than they do. I wish I had more answers.

  • I would have to disagree with him. I wouldn't say "most men cheat."

     

    It isn't fair to yourself and to your future SO to just assume they are going to cheat.

     

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  • I've had discouraging conversations like this before with men too. I remember a guy I dated telling me how when he would  go on golf trips with his friends, they would go to a strip club where all the married guys would get BJ's from the strippers just because it's "something different".

    On the other hand, I've known men who seem to have a totally different perspective and who don't seem like most of the men they hang around with are cheaters, so I think it could be a matter of the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together"??? People of good character usually stick together and same is true of the opposite?

    It all makes trusting people so hard. I've never cheated in ANY of my relationships, why is it so hard for other people??

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  • AudgAudg member
    image River Pestie:

    I would have to disagree with him. I wouldn't say "most men cheat."

     

    It isn't fair to yourself and to your future SO to just assume they are going to cheat.

    You are 100% right about this.. and I do usually have a more positive outlook... I just took a million steps back since last week.  I'm trying though...

  • I have several male friends. Of them, I could see maybe 2 of the being unfaithful sadly.

    I agree that we cannot go through it assuming that they will cheat. I did that in one relationship. He was the only guy I've dated that didn't. After XH cheated, I asked the ex-BF (we are still friends. Same friends circle) why he never did because everyone else I had been with had. He said he never wanted to. So I don't know.

  • AudgAudg member
    image starburst604:

    I've had discouraging conversations like this before with men too. I remember a guy I dated telling me how when he would  go on golf trips with his friends, they would go to a strip club where all the married guys would get BJ's from the strippers just because it's "something different".

    On the other hand, I've known men who seem to have a totally different perspective and who don't seem like most of the men they hang around with are cheaters, so I think it could be a matter of the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together"??? People of good character usually stick together and same is true of the opposite?

    It all makes trusting people so hard. I've never cheated in ANY of my relationships, why is it so hard for other people??

    This is a great point!!! As a matter of fact he told me that his good friend calls it "married, but dating" Ugh.. mother f*ckers...

  • image starburst604:

    On the other hand, I've known men who seem to have a totally different perspective and who don't seem like most of the men they hang around with are cheaters, so I think it could be a matter of the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together"??? People of good character usually stick together and same is true of the opposite?

    I think this plays a part in it, and/or that men who cheat likely comfort themselves by telling themselves that "everyone else does it" so that it doesn't seem as wrong.

    I've been cheated on once that I know of, and I don't suspect any of my other ex's of having cheated without my knowledge, so there are at least a few good men out there!

  • If this is the kind of guy you're friends with, you need new friends.

    The day I left was just my beginning.
  • I think you need to surround yourself with a higher quality of person in general.  One surefire giveaway that a guy is a douche is that he thinks he's the spokesperson for men (or "most men"), as though they're as interchangeable as matches in a pack - that tends to mean that he's thinking "everybody else is doing it" to justify whatever assh*le thing he does.

    image
  • image starburst604:

    On the other hand, I've known men who seem to have a totally different perspective and who don't seem like most of the men they hang around with are cheaters, so I think it could be a matter of the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together"??? People of good character usually stick together and same is true of the opposite?

    I this is a good point.

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  • I've seen statistics that something 60% of men and 40% of women have cheated on their spouse.  I don't know if it is accurate or not.  I remember when I first saw that stat I was shocked and thought there was no way it could be accurate.  Knowing what I know now it wouldn't surprise me if it was...
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  • AudgAudg member
    image ReturnOfKuus:

    I think you need to surround yourself with a higher quality of person in general.  One surefire giveaway that a guy is a douche is that he thinks he's the spokesperson for men (or "most men"), as though they're as interchangeable as matches in a pack - that tends to mean that he's thinking "everybody else is doing it" to justify whatever assh*le thing he does.

    Wow, you gals are good...cuz he did in fact say this too..when I mentioned to him about my sis's friend (a woman) had cheated, he said something like, "see everyone does it."  But you are all right, cheaters are friends with fellow cheaters and that is how they make excuses for their shittty behavior.  And no I'm not BFF's with this guy... we are work friends.  We used to work together somewhere else prior to here.. and so I've known him for a long time, but that's where our 'friendship' ends...trust me.. I wouldn't normally surround myself with such a punk.

  • Looking at what I wrote, I realized that a lot of my female friends have cheated in their marriages. What does that say about me....???  Embarrassed

    But in my defense I've never advocated it when they do it and they'll give excuses like "oh you'll understand someday when you're married" and I usually reply with something like "no, because I'll have learned from all of you what mistakes NOT to make", which in their case is usually that they got married to the wrong guy just to get married.

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  • I agree with the others. If this is coming from a guy who may or most likely would cheat on his wife... then I wouldn't take it as a fact.

    I am surrounded by guys who have never cheated. (My grandfather, dad, brother, cousins, friends...) AND I have a small chunk that have cheated (my other grandfather, friends, uncles). I promise there are plenty of good guys out there that do not cheat and in fact will lose respect for those who do.

    My brother left a group of friends over something like this. He was kind of a party guy, but he has been faithful for 7 years. He called me one night because he needed to vent about having to leave the party b/c his friends were pressuring him to hook up with a chick there while his GF was out of town. He doesn't hang out with these guys anymore (he never told GF he left the group on his own accord).

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  • AudgAudg member
    image beccaga16:

    I agree with the others. If this is coming from a guy who may or most likely would cheat on his wife... then I wouldn't take it as a fact.

    I am surrounded by guys who have never cheated. (My grandfather, dad, brother, cousins, friends...) AND I have a small chunk that have cheated (my other grandfather, friends, uncles). I promise there are plenty of good guys out there that do not cheat and in fact will lose respect for those who do.

    My brother left a group of friends over something like this. He was kind of a party guy, but he has been faithful for 7 years. He called me one night because he needed to vent about having to leave the party b/c his friends were pressuring him to hook up with a chick there while his GF was out of town. He doesn't hang out with these guys anymore (he never told GF he left the group on his own accord).

    This is comforting... ya'll are def making me feel better. (Ummm I have no clue why I just typed ya'll ..I'm from Jersey..lol... Im losing it!!)
  • I think this conversation is why I steer clear of the charming men or men with big personalities and charisma.  It seems like once they learned the tools to "play" with women, they never stop.

     

  • That has to be just one person's opinion. I have a lot of guy friends that would never in a million years cheat on their wives. I agree with PP's, he sounds like a dbag.

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  • The truth is... a lot of men cheat. Even good men who love their wives.

    And a lot of women cheat, though generally for different reasons.

    Quite honestly I don't think monogamy is natural, and I think its very headache and heartache inducing to believe that just because someone loves you and feels you are their best partner means they're never going to be sexually attracted to anyone else, or want to have the thrill of a new partner.

     

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  • I don't think "all men cheat".  I think all douchebag men and women cheat.  I think that this is something you can continue to work on with your therapist.  Don't lump the entire male species into this category just because your married friend is a loser who commits adultrey.
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    I don't belive that most married men cheat.  Not at all!  Really, maybe your "friend" cheats, and his friends are like him - cheaters with no integrity.  DH definately knew people at work who cheated - - but his core friends share his values and they do not cheat on their wives.  Quite honestly, they are too busy dividing their time between work and their families to have time for a woman on the side! 

     

     

    image "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
  • image Alisha_A:

    The truth is... a lot of men cheat. Even good men who love their wives.

     

     

    I don't think the term "good men" means what you think it means.

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  • image ReturnOfKuus:
    image Alisha_A:

    The truth is... a lot of men cheat. Even good men who love their wives.

     

     

    I don't think the term "good men" means what you think it means.

    I'm with Kuus here.  If you don't think you're cut out for monogamy, that's cool...don't get married!  Or marry someone who is ok with swinging or an open relationship.  More power to you, so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.  But a "good man" would NOT go behind his partner's back.  It's not the sleeping with someone else that's a problem--it's doing it without your partner's knowledge and consent.  The sneakiness and lying that it would involve are what makes the man not a good man.

  • I think my therapist quoted 80% of all marriages have some sort of infidelity (from the "monogamy myth"). I think in most cases, infidelity is much more complicated than one individual being a douchebag.
  • IMO if you love your spouse, you won't cheat on them. Temptation or not... so the line that someone threw out about "Good men that love their wives sometimes cheat" or something like that... doesn't make sense.

     

    If you love someone you also respect them.. and going behind said person's back and lying and sneaking around and being unfaithful isn't respecting them, your marriage or your relationship.

     

    You don't intentionally hurt someone you love. You may think you love them, but I guess i have a different opinion of what loving someone means than those who cheat and claim to 'love' their spouse.

     

    But that's just my $.02

  • image UDscoobychick:
    image ReturnOfKuus:
    image Alisha_A:

    The truth is... a lot of men cheat. Even good men who love their wives.

     

     

    I don't think the term "good men" means what you think it means.

    I'm with Kuus here.  If you don't think you're cut out for monogamy, that's cool...don't get married!  Or marry someone who is ok with swinging or an open relationship.  More power to you, so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.  But a "good man" would NOT go behind his partner's back.  It's not the sleeping with someone else that's a problem--it's doing it without your partner's knowledge and consent.  The sneakiness and lying that it would involve are what makes the man not a good man.

    I agree, and should have put that in quotation marks. I meant it that way -- as someone perceived as a "good man".

    And I completely agree that dishonesty and sneakiness is very harmful.

    I'm not at all condoning cheating.

    I'd just rather not expect monogamy than have someone try and fail and lie to my face, creating distance and distrust.

    And for the record, I'm not a swinger or in a relationship.

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  • Here is what I have found: men who cheat hang out with men who cheat!  If this friend is himself a cheater, he probably does hang out with a bunch of other men that cheat.  Just because every man he knows cheats doesn't mean every man cheats.


  • image Libramom2b:
    I think my therapist quoted 80% of all marriages have some sort of infidelity (from the "monogamy myth"). I think in most cases, infidelity is much more complicated than one individual being a douchebag.

    I agree... relationships that last a lifetime are very complex. The more I look at the older people's relationships around me (my family, friends, parent's of friends) the more I realize how complicated things can get. More than a few people I know in their 40s-50s have told me they wouldn't get married again.. eventhough they love their spouse and they don't want to cheat or get divorced it's just not worth it.  They are good people who have what would be considered strong marriages and families but they aren't satisfied anymore... maybe because of the amount of time they have been together and the stress involved in raising successful children.

    My ex and I were together for 7 years and I wasn't attracted to other people and didn't cheat but I don't know about in 27 or 37 years.. it's just a very long time to be with the same person. I don't really have much desire to get married again... I would like to be in a long term commited relationship but I am not sure about marriage unless we would be planning to have children together.

  • image kjewell:
    I've seen statistics that something 60% of men and 40% of women have cheated on their spouse.  I don't know if it is accurate or not.  I remember when I first saw that stat I was shocked and thought there was no way it could be accurate.  Knowing what I know now it wouldn't surprise me if it was...

    Would it comfort you to know that this is only true for the actual people polled?  

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